Dragon Ball, Z, and GT

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Originally Posted by Nathander

Really, I'd kind of like it if someone would start a DBZ thread in general, if just to talk about it.

Ask and ye shall receive! This is a thread dedicated to the wonderful, exciting, kick ass and (in my opinion) one of the greatest anime series ever created by Akira Toriyama: Dragon ball, Z and GT. Note this is NOT about the live action movie, this thread is for the discussion of the series itself.

I am (in case you hadn't noticed) a die hard Dragon ball fan and I am a proud supporter, watcher, and admirer of this fantastic anime series. Some of the reasons I like it: it's got a gigantic cast of wonderfully unique characters, the aliens and species and creatures in this show are so numerous and unique.

It features a little bit of everything from action, romance, comedy, science fiction, drama etc. And one of the most important reasons: the fights. These guys pull of battles unlike any other show with powers rivaling that of gods. Anyways that's enough from me, what about the rest of you?

Who is a Dragon Ball fan and what do you want to say about the show? Questions? Comments? Favorites? Non favorites? etc.

[Nathander]

I'm not exactly a die hard fan, but I am a fan of the show, if just due to the fact that it was such a large part of my childhood. Heck, I remember when they first started showing early dubs of Dragon Ball at 5:30 AM on Saturdays about 1996 on WB when I was a kid. So I may not be a devoted fan (the only anime I have ever really given this to being Hellsing), but I do love it, if just for the nostalgia factor.

I got the Season One DVD collection about two weeks ago, and so far have found the time to get through episode 29. After re-watching the series after so many years, I was surprised to find out that it not only lived up to my childhood memories, but somehow exceeded them as there were several subtle things in it that I hadn't noticed before. Though, whether this is due to the redubbing or not, I can't tell....

One thing in particular that struck me was, oddly enough, an increased sympathy for Nappa. I actually found an odd sense of sympathy for Nappa, especially after Vegeta killed him, which I hadn't felt before. That isn't to say that I think lightly of what he did, or that he shouldn't have died; it was really inevitable that he did. But looking at all of the interaction between him and Vegeta, it almost seemed like he (oddly enough) seemed to possess a far greater sense of fair play and (less surprisingly) loyalty then Vegeta. He seemed somewhat bothered, ultimately by Vegeta's choice to destroy the planet they had inadvertantly saved from a tyrant (Arlia? I can't remember the name, unfortunately...), as well as being surprised and saddened by Vegeta's choice to kill the first Saibaman who lost his fight. Really, it seemed to play up less of the partner aspect I remember the two as having and more the fact that Nappa had this almost dog-like affection in the way he followed Vegeta, and he'd change his tune in order to please him. I don't know if I'm overanalyzing or not, but hey, that's what I do.

I've been watching the series with the Funimation English dub and the original Japanese soundtrack. While the Funimation dub is excellent (they tend to do fairly well with shounen series)....I'm uncertain what I think about the original Japanese soundtrack. I honestly prefer the American one, from what I can tell so far.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Originally Posted by Nathander

I got the Season One DVD collection about two weeks ago, and so far have found the time to get through episode 29. After re-watching the series after so many years, I was surprised to find out that it not only lived up to my childhood memories, but somehow exceeded them as there were several subtle things in it that I hadn't noticed before. Though, whether this is due to the redubbing or not, I can't tell....

One thing in particular that struck me was, oddly enough, an increased sympathy for Nappa. I actually found an odd sense of sympathy for Nappa, especially after Vegeta killed him, which I hadn't felt before. That isn't to say that I think lightly of what he did, or that he shouldn't have died; it was really inevitable that he did. But looking at all of the interaction between him and Vegeta, it almost seemed like he (oddly enough) seemed to possess a far greater sense of fair play and (less surprisingly) loyalty then Vegeta. He seemed somewhat bothered, ultimately by Vegeta's choice to destroy the planet they had inadvertantly saved from a tyrant (Arlia? I can't remember the name, unfortunately...), as well as being surprised and saddened by Vegeta's choice to kill the first Saibaman who lost his fight. Really, it seemed to play up less of the partner aspect I remember the two as having and more the fact that Nappa had this almost dog-like affection in the way he followed Vegeta, and he'd change his tune in order to please him. I don't know if I'm overanalyzing or not, but hey, that's what I do.

I've been watching the series with the Funimation English dub and the original Japanese soundtrack. While the Funimation dub is excellent (they tend to do fairly well with shounen series)....I'm uncertain what I think about the original Japanese soundtrack. I honestly prefer the American one, from what I can tell so far.

That is EXACTLY what I was talking about earlier when we had that little DBZ quarrel and I am so happy to hear your enjoying the uncut seasons. I have 1-3 and they are freaking awesome, it's a whole new experience watching them in these new season sets. Characters seem totally different sometimes.

As I said before about Nappa, I am happy to hear you finally see what i was telling you about. Nappa wasn't just a pure evil, cold hearted bastard, he actually DID have some sympathetic feelings in him. Like you said with Arlia, the Saibamen, and like you said also, his betrayal by Vegeta.

Now I'm not saying that excuses his barbaric nature or all the people he ruthlessly killed but it does give him more depth. I truly think Nappa enjoyed Vegeta as his partner, he feared him like a pet but by his reactions I really think he enjoyed his time with Vegeta and felt horrified he was back stabbed.

Nappa's concern for the aliens and the Saibamen shows a twinge of sanctity of life in him. The fact he actually said he felt bad about both their deaths shows he doesn't just mindlessly kill, it shows he feel something sometimes. And then watch how Vegeta acts, he's even more ruthless then Nappa is.

He didn't care AT ALL for the aliens or the Saibaman he killed, it was a life form regardless if it was evil or not and he killed it without even thinking twice. Like I said before, DBZ creates some of the finest villains in anime history and that they are quite more interesting then what meets the eye. One thing you might also notice Nathander, Bulma is drastically different in these season sets.

Her demeanor is much more casual and at times even more polite. Her b*tchy nature is severely toned down and she barely talks down or speaks smart assed to everyone like she used to. As for the music, I admit it takes some getting used to, the Japanese music sometime works amazingly well with the scenes being shown, other times it sounds like the same tune repeated over.

[Nathander]

Yeah, I have noticed that about Bulma, and really, it does make sense. A lot of the times when she does seem especially rude or snappy is due to the fact that she's understandably freaking out about the coming of the Saiyans. The two people she was primarily with as well, Roshi and Oolong, didn't especially help her mood either, though Roshi is an especially more tolerable person to be around, due mainly to the deal of insight he possess, than Oolong. Of course, Roshi's failings tend to pop up more often around Bulma then anyone else....

Going back to Vegeta, another odd thing that I felt about him and the other Saiyans in this translation was the subject of their racial pride. Both Raditz and Nappa seemed to focus on the idea of the pride of being a Saiyan in regards to their whole race, including half-breeds like Gohan, while Vegeta focuses soley on his racial pride as an extension of his personal pride. Both Raditz and Nappa acknowledge that they consider Gohan as a true Saiyan warrior, Raditz going so far as to say he'd grant Gohan a true Saiyan's death due to how impressed he was. Vegeta never uses this kind of language towards anyone else who is a Saiyan, except in reference to himself, which of course goes back to his personal pride. Watching Vegeta's evolution, really, is one of the most interesting things about the series.

Another thing that I just wanna spout on about is one of the more volatile subjects in the fandom, that being the treatment of the true human characters. A lot of the fandom feels the humans are given an especially poor deal of treatment due to the fact of how powerful the Saiyans are. While the Saiyans do take the spotlight in this regard, I've never really thought it that bad since a) Goku had always been the established main character to begin with and b) the human characters, especially Krillin, are god-like in battle power in their own right. They aren't 'Super Saiyan' god-like, but that hardly really matters when they're basically the strongest group of humans on the planet. Krillin is, in fact, probably my favorite character within the series, partially due to the fact that I tend to love underdog characters in anime (which is one of the reasons for my devotion to the character of Alexander Anderson in Hellsing) as well as the believable humanity of the character.

There's also the issue of Yamcha, and the unfair treatment he tends to receive from the fandom.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

The thing with Vegeta is that while he is a patriot for his race, and he shows this much more proudly with his experiences with the androids and how he hates them so, Vegeta is and will always be a self righteous warrior at heart. As much as he loves his race, in truth, Vegeta loves no one more then himself.

Vegeta's pride for his race does not change his zero tolerance for "weakness" you can tell by his utter lack of concern or care that Raditz was killed and how he didn't want to wish him back (and obviously his betraying/killing Nappa). Even in the Bardock special, Vegeta was totally careless to learn his race was destroyed by Frieza.

Another sign is his obvious hatred for Goku being the fact he is a low class Saiyan and Vegeta is a royal prince, that royal blood of his is something Vegeta treasures more then anything else. DBZ makes many transitions with Vegeta's character, even admitting he does have a heart before being slain by Frieza as he begged Goku to kill him.

You don't need to worry about the human characters because in truth, while their services may be slim in numbers they are vast in quality. Consider Bulma's knowledge of the Namek spaceship, her working of Raditz's scouter, and most importantly, her dragon radar which is the most important object in the entire series.

Krillin actually gets a lot of air time and contributes a lot, once the Saiyans invade, he remains center stage and stays a main character until Goku and Frieza start duking it out. I give Krillin a lot of credit because he's so insanely unlucky and in way over his head, yet he still comes fighting EVERY single time beside his friends.

He contributes more then anyone can imagine and he became Gohan's best friend after Piccolo died, their partnership was always something I remembered vividly when I first saw DBZ on public TV (before CN bought it). As for Yamcha, I think his woman problems are what ended up earning him that negative scorn.

I also feel bad for Tien, Yamcha, and Chatozu, reality hit them like an atomic bomb. When you think about it with Vegeta and Nappa's power levels being what they were, none of those guys even stood a chance and they were slaughtered so easily. Yamcha specially took it rough during the androids saga when he attempted gravity training.

As for other under appreciated characters, I think King Kai deserves a lot of support considering all the hard work he's done not only training Goku and his friends, but actually helping him through communication. That brilliant plan he concocted with resurrecting all of Frieza's victims, transporting everyone to Earth, was pure genius.

The fact a short, fat, blue faced little bug man could orchestrate such a risky plan with Goku, using both sets of dragon balls all telepathically was (in my opinion) one of the most impressive feats accomplished in the series.

[fosters home fan]

This was the series that used the "OVER 9000!!!!!!!" line, right?!

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Originally Posted by fosters home fan

This was the series that used the "OVER 9000!!!!!!!" line, right?!

Heh, yes it was. That line your referring to was when Vegeta read Goku's power level when he first arrived and it was, as you read "Over 9000". The way he screamed it like that though was apparantly insanely funny for a lot of people.

I originally didn't notice it being that funny or weird when I first saw it but looking back on it, I can see what you mean. The line was open to LOTS of parodies which youtube is full of. Someone even used it as a DDR remix song.

[Medikor]

I enjoyed DBZ the first time I watched it through. Granted I've only seen the dub (I know, I know...) but it was still fun. The only real DBZ fix I get now are either playing the Budakai Tenkaichi games (ain't Street Fighter but still great) and the endless parodies on on youtube. My favorite of which is "The Pylons are Trap Ball".
My favorite characters would have to be Frieeza, Raditz, Nappa, Piccolo, Nail, and... uh... Cooler, I guess? I love Frieeza's character design and his aristocratic and pompous personality. I'm a sucker for white and blue/purple colour schemes and Frieeza just seemed to have been swept under the rug by fans once Cell came into the picture.
I've only seen the first three movies that were released on VHS (I still have them buried away somewhere) and my favorite would have to "Dead Zone". Garlic Jr. was a good character who reminded me of Emperor Pilof and the art and music really spoke to me.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Frieza probably was the greatest DBZ villain (next to Vegeta), my personal favorite is Cell but past my personal tastes I truly do believe Frieza was the best villain they ever made. He was the most heartless, ruthless, sadistic, cold blooded freak of nature I have seen and I have seen a LOT of cold villains.

Frieza truly thrives on suffering and out of the countless times I have rewatched the show, I can honestly say I have NEVER seen him show any speck of mercy or care towards another living being. Not even his own father. Frieza's attacks are even specifically designed to kill people or to make them suffer horribly.

I love Cooler too, I think his appearance is absolutely bad ass. There's a total of 13 DBZ movies, 2 DBZ TV specials, GT has one special and Dragon Ball has 4 movies. My favorite of the original 3 movies is "World's strongest", and of the other films I love movie 12 "Fusion reborn", and movie 10 "Brolly's 2nd coming".

Brolly now THERE is a great DBZ villain.

[Medikor]

I could never get into the whole Brolly thing. He's insanely popular but I don't see him as anything more than a big, strong bad-guy. Maybe I missed something, but other than hating Goku, I can't really see anything more to him.