Is animated romance dead?

[Mr. Marshmallow]

This may sound like a weird topic but it's something that has been bugging me lately and the more I think about it, I'm noticing it more and more. I don't watch many RECENT cartoon shows, Fosters, Ben 10 and the Batman are the only toons of today that seem to have captured my attention and interest.

And one of them is simply because I'm a long time "Bat" fan. But I've noticed that most modern day cartoon shows don't have much romance, love, or couples. Most shows either avoid it or create characters that are set to make romance impossible between central characters (Ben and Gwen being cousins from Ben 10 for example).

Back in the older days of cartoons, and even anime, romance was almost rapant and that you could see characters falling in love with each other left and right. Now a days, both animes and toons seem to be making that close to impossible by eliminating love interests by killing them off or turning them inside out.

Take Fosters and Billy and Mandy for example. Both shows have pretty much zero romantic content and when it does show up, it's usually used as a comedic ingredient. Granted they are comedy based shows, comedy doesn't necessarily mean romance can't exist. Look at Futurama or Samurai Pizza Cats.

Both held romances down in an entirely comedic environment. What's worse is even the modern toons that DO have romances, bury them under such incredibly hard to find "hints" that are usually weak or barely ever on. Teen Titans took forever to actually nail down a solid working romance on the show.

There were so many speculations about who loved who and who ended up with who, because they didn't really bother making a solid romance noticed. Call me a sucker but I always loved watching romances in animated shows AND movies, i always found them to be more fascinating then RL romances.

Even GREAT shows like Batman Beyond and Justice League: Unlimited had romances and barely used them and JL didn't even resolve 2 very large couples they developed since the show began. I'm not saying make them all lovey dovey soap operas, but I am definitely feeling a "romance withdrawl" here in modern cartoons.

I think it's sad love in animation is getting harder and harder to find, either it's written out through a plot device or comedic story piece, or it's buried under such few scattered hints that by the time the characters accept their love, the shows over and you feel ripped off because its rusted over since they lasted used it.

Maybe this is just a rant of mine and it has no water to hold but I think what I say holds some truth and I just wanted to know what you guys thought of this idea.

[Partymember]

Bread and Circuses.

Nobody has the time or cerebral prowess to digest and dissect complex subplots in entertainment anymore. People are dumbing down like never before.

Do yourself a favor and start worrying about romance in real life and forget the televised slop the mindless piggies of today's youth are eating from the trough of mass media. Liberate yourself from televised totalitarianism.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Originally Posted by Partymember

Do yourself a favor and start worrying about romance in real life and forget the televised slop the mindless piggies of today's youth are eating from the trough of mass media. Liberate yourself from televised totalitarianism.

Two things:

1- That sounds a bit extreme.

and

2- I'm actually SICK of worrying about RL romance since I'm rather down in that area and I'd rather not go back and drudge up bad memories on a problem I am trying to feel less crappy about.

This is just a generalization/point of view observation thing I've noticed recently and was curious of others opinions on it.

[Partymember]

Yeah, it is a bit extreme.

But i was dead serious.

[Sparky]

I kinda always thought there was too *much* romance in cartoons ("*id's *cartoons, I mean). I never have, either in childhood or adulthood, watched a kid's cartoon to see romance. BUT then, I know I'm not typical. I'm not trying to argue with you, you asked for our opinions and that's mine.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Originally Posted by Sparky

I kinda always thought there was too *much* romance in cartoons ("*id's *cartoons, I mean). I never have, either in childhood or adulthood, watched a kid's cartoon to see romance. BUT then, I know I'm not typical. I'm not trying to argue with you, you asked for our opinions and that's mine.

No, I'm glad your speaking your mind, I consider this a more VALID response. I don't watch toons to see romance but I never really complained when they put it in there either. Sailor Moon was filled with romance yet it wasn't the sole reason I watched it, I was also into the whole super hero fighting evil bit.

I think what I feel is that I don't want it to be overflowing or suffocating, but I think it wouldn't hurt to maybe mix a tiny bit in more so then they have been doing lately. One thing I've always liked seeing about them in shows is the progress, it gives you something to see more of and wonder about.

The Teen Titans romance with Robin and Starfire I found to be very interesting, and whole it was certainly more subdued then most toons have done it, it created a compelling conflict I wanted to see to it's completion. Kinda like how Batman loved so many women but never really settled down.

It's an interesting challenge to give characters a chance to love, you never know what comes out of love and that's what i find interesting about it in TV shows.

[Lynnie]

I love cartoons from Disney, PBS, WB and obviously CN (haven't really found much interest in Nick though... yet). The cartoons I like are mostly geared toward kids and nope, they have little or no interest in any type of romance either. But being geared toward kids, it makes sense, since kids under the age of 10 are usually turned off by anything romantic, especially boys. So they're not going to put anything in there to turn their targeted audiences off. But they might have just the tiniest hints of romance just to keep the girls daydreaming, because, yeah, we girls really like that stuff. And we liked it more as we got older. But boys, not so much. So unless a cartoon is for older kids, or specifically for little girls, I can understand why they don't want to put too much romance into them. They could potentially lose a lot of viewers.

I may not be clear as to how much "romance" you're referring to, but are you familiar with Codename: KND at all? It's geared toward kids 10+, and has quite a bit of romantic relationships suggested (without it getting sexual). Numbah 4 (Wally) has a mad crush on Numbah 3 (Kuki), and, well, I'm a girl so I may be biased, but I find it really cute how he swoons over her, defends her, helps her, looks out for her, etc., but refuses to admit he likes her, to ANYBODY. She likes him back, but is much more subtle. In the KND movie Operation: Z.E.R.O. they FINALLY kiss each other (although they're not really themselves, but I don't want to give away too many spoilers), and it was really cute! There's also another episode with a Numbah 19th Century and Numbah 86 (Fanny), and they have crushes on eachother, too, and also kiss toward the end of the episode. Numbah 5 (Abby) and her sister Cree have an interest in the same guy, and there are some interesting situations that arise with them, too. And Numbah 1 (Nigel) actually has a girlfriend named Lizzie, and they've also kissed a few times. So, anyway, the romance in KND might be similar to TT. That's one cartoon I know of that has some romance in it. But it's the only one I can really think of because, you're right, there aren't many out there. Not specifically for kids, anyway.

[Ccook50]

That's the basic stigma. The target age group is 2 to 11 for many of the shows, and the studios are in business to make cartoons for them, not to cater to fanservice.

Many fan communities take an isolated incident and blow it out of proportion, tunring it into what's called "shipping," the romance of two characters who under normal continuity does not have one. A Billy & Mandy fan community has created a "shipping" of the two title characters, based solely on the scene from the episode "SpiderMandy" where Billy proposes marriage to Mandy. The Powerpuff community took the scene from "The Rowdyruff Boys" of the girls kissing the boys on the cheek (to obviously destroy them) and created a gazillion fan fictions of PpG/RrB romances. But those stories are more or less jimmy devices to make the Powerpuffs the author's "Mary Sue" (a character in a fan story which is a glorified personification of the author--the male counterpart is a "Marty Stu"). It's not normal canon, but the stories are written as if it were.

[Medikor]

I never cared for romance stories in my cartoons when I was a kid but now that I'm older I really appreciate and look forward to them. Romance can really make or break a story. Final Fantasy 8 is a good example of how too much emphasise on romance can be a bad thing. It was so forced that it really soured the game for me. But if handled well, like in Final Fantasy 9, it can feel much more natural and enjoyable.
There are several animated shows that offer some very nice romantic stories today. Avatar is a very good example. Romance is one of the key elements to the show and it's handled very well. Many animes today also feature plenty of romance. So I don't think there's any real animated romance drought going on. You just need to know where to look.

[ptps]

I actually prefer them leaving stuff to be gen; that way the audiences themselves can decide what pairings they like and stuff. *shrug* Unless of course the show is SUPPOSED to be in the romance category, then yeah, having a set-up couple or couples would be fine.