Any Vegans or Vegetarians Out There

[jekylljuice]

Originally Posted by Partymember

yes, omnivores. We have both incisors and molars. I enjoy eating a large rare steak with a quartered potato (too large to really justify labelling them "steak fries"). I also buy a small loaf of homemade bread to rip chunks off and sop up the juice and blood with. THAT makes a good meal. I usually eat it with my hands

I do that with tomato soup (the bread thing, I mean). Naturally, it doesn't have quite the same primitive appeal, but it's my own idea of good eating.

[scary_dream]

Yeah I know we're omnivores, my bad. I just meant that we were meant to eat meat along with the veggies in question.

[jekylljuice]

Originally Posted by scary_dream

Yeah I know we're omnivores, my bad. I just meant that we were meant to eat meat along with the veggies in question.

I know what you're getting at, though I wouldn't quite say that we were meant to eat meat myself ("meant" being the word I'd find slightly problematic, since it implies external purpose and intention, which doesn't really fit in with my own personal world view, but it's probably best if we don't go there ).

I don't know, it's just that I don't see my decision not to eat meat as a major act of rebellion on my part, just something which I'm fortunate enough to be able to take control of in my own life, since I've chosen to. And I don't believe that what my prehistoric ancestors had to go through need have any bearing on it. I'm just glad that I wasn't born in their time (for a multitude of reasons besides, no less because their standard cure for headaches was seemingly to trapan a hole in the patient's head - though what's fascinating is that they have a whole collection of healing skulls indicating the patients' survival, so maybe I should be giving them a little more credit ). Whatever traces of their primitive instincts remain in me I'm sure I vent sufficiently in my everyday activities. Like my so-called approach to "dancing" for one - that really makes me feel like a wild animal.

[scary_dream]

Originally Posted by jekylljuice

I know what you're getting at, though I wouldn't quite say that we were meant to eat meat myself ("meant" being the word I'd find slightly problematic, since it implies external purpose and intention, which doesn't really fit in with my own personal world view, but it's probably best if we don't go there ).

I wasn't meaning "meant" as an external purpose, but that we were meant to as in our bodies have chatacteristics of animals that also eat meat.

I'm not getting into spiritual talk or religion, just that based on scientific evidence of both physical characteristics and our bodies' chemical needs, to keep ourselves alive (before there was meat substitutes) we NEEDED to eat meat. There's no religion or bias about that.

[jekylljuice]

Originally Posted by scary_dream

I wasn't meaning "meant" as an external purpose, but that we were meant to as in our bodies have chatacteristics of animals that also eat meat.

I'm not getting into spiritual talk or religion, just that based on scientific evidence of both physical characteristics and our bodies' chemical needs, to keep ourselves alive (before there was meat substitutes) we NEEDED to eat meat. There's no religion or bias about that.

No worries, I understood what you were saying. My own point was just that whatever obligations may have existed in the past are now redundant. In an age where our basic instincts are severly tempered by such factors as reason and self-consciousness (they may be annoying, but we're stuck with them until the effects of the next nuclear war), it becomes a matter of personal preference.

[montitech]

Originally Posted by jekylljuice

My own point was just that whatever obligations may have existed in the past are now redundant. In an age where our basic instincts are severly tempered by such factors as reason and self-consciousness (they may be annoying, but we're stuck with them until the effects of the next nuclear war), it becomes a matter of personal preference.

What is considered "existed in the past are now redundant"


Ummm, The rest is a very similar to a way over 2000 year old belief, I think it was Plato? or may Plato as told through Aristotal. Maybe someone else could assist in refreshing my memory, but it is something like this. Reason, KNowledge are the ultimate goals (in self-consciousness can be implied into this) as opposed to Hunger, Love, war, pain fear etc...; These are all appitietes that prevent us from achiving and thus make us less Human and more animalistic.

(I am just stating an observation, I am not making any opinions for or against the arguments.)

Monty

[jekylljuice]

Originally Posted by montitech

What is considered "existed in the past are now redundant"

Well, I guess it could be applied to any circumstance in which human beings are able to take active control of their own lifestyles, as opposed to following instinct. More specifically, our way of living differs so drastically from that of our prehistoric ancestors that taking active control of our diets, if we choose to, doesn't strike me as being terribly radical or out-of-place.

[Partymember]

Originally Posted by jekylljuice

Well, I guess it could be applied to any circumstance in which human beings are able to take active control of their own lifestyles, as opposed to following instinct. More specifically, our way of living differs so drastically from that of our prehistoric ancestors that taking active control of our diets, if we choose to, doesn't strike me as being terribly radical or out-of-place.

i wouldn't put money on that. Our economies, governments, civilaztions and religions are fragile and artificial. The one absolute is the Law of Club and Fang, and you can be sure that we slip back into the Dark Ages every so often. When is a matter of speculation, how is a matter of seculation, but it will happen.

[Ditchy McAbandonpants]

Partymember: Well, that may be true, but I think jekylljuice's point is that for now, civilisation is still very much in place, so we're free to do what we want nutrition-wise, and for some people that means foregoing bloody flesh in favour of tomato soup.

Still, I'm more of the school of thought that if my body can digest meat, it would be a bit of a waste not to utilise that function. Being a vegetarian to me seems like buying a PlayStation 3 but refusing to use the built-in Blu-Ray player, to use a really geeky analogy. The powers that be have seen fit to bless me with [noun form of "omnivorous"]*, so damn it, I'm taking advantage! That, and I looooove the meat.

* - What the heck is the noun form of omnivorous? Omnivorousness? Omnivorosity? Omnivorification?

[Cassini90125]

You and me both . While the body can digest meat, it doesn't do it as well as a true carnivore such as a tiger does. Still, we handle saturated fats and cholesterol better than any other primate species. I think it is very likely that our distant ancestors were vegetarian but began eating meat more often as the ancient African plains started to dry out when the climate began shifting. It may have been more a matter of necessity than choice. I won't bore anyone by reciting the tale of human evolution here, but I do think that the enviromental conditions of the time favored individuals that, by some quirk of fate, were better able to digest meat than others.

One thing I'm not clear on is why we cook meat, or any other food. I mean, no other species does this, nor does one ever encounter cooked food in nature, except near forest fires and active volcanoes. Why did we start doing that? Just to improve the flavor and texture? True, cooking kills bacteria and neutralizes some plant toxins, but because the body hasn't had to deal with those things for so long it seems that we've lost the ability to do so. Hence we have e. coli scares now and then from undercooked foods, mostly meat, while other species seem to get by fine on a diet that's 100% raw. Any thoughts?