Goofball John Magee

[Voxxyn]

OK, I'm breaking my promise--but while we're talking about getting things off our chests...

I will never, ever, ever accept this episode as being "good fun". That's the third time someone gave me the "good fun" answer in defense of the episode. It doesn't work. It only serves to frustrate me even more. I thought "good fun" was meant to entertain and give a positive feeling. I didn't know "good fun" these days is undeserved cruelty and malice.

I refuse to view this episode as "good fun" or a "joke". IMO, doing so would be an act of betrayal and disrespect towards Frankie. I love her very much. She means a lot to me; she's worth infinitely more than the "walking punching bag" nature in which she was carelessly and dishearteningly portrayed in that episode.

Like I already said, I'm not outrightly ANGRY at any of the staff. I don't want them to throw me a huge "We're Sorry" party. I just want for them to never make such hurtful episodes again. Frankie(and all the other characters) deserves better.

[montitech]

Originally Posted by Voxxyn

...
I will never, ever, ever accept this episode as being "good fun". That's the third time someone gave me the "good fun" answer in defense of the episode. It doesn't work. It only serves to frustrate me even more. I thought "good fun" was meant to entertain and give a positive feeling. I didn't know "good fun" these days is undeserved cruelty and malice.
.....

Sorry to disagree, but Cruelty and Malice Comedy is very Traditional with short movies and TV, it dates back to the BW days and the silver screen Here are some names of great Comedians that have quite a bit of cruel humor: (please excuse the spelling)
Abbot and Costello,
Buster Keaton,
Lorel and Hardy,
The three stooges,
Marx Brothers (they also included more Mental abuse on the protagonis)
Charlie Chaplin.

Cruel Humer has always been just good old FUn, sometimes a bit slapsticked sometimes just cruel but always just in "Good Fun"
Alos it is very common that people do not see eye to eye on thier sence of humor, for example some people Hate the Marx Brothers but lover Chaplin. Some people hate all of these (Like my wife) and some people like them all Like myself. Duck soup is a very funny, and Abbot and Costello are a great team despite the joke usually being cruel to costello.

PS, Voxxyn, I think your last few post a few days ago were well writen to express your view. But I must take the opposite view because I did enjoy watching the episode. Maybe its because I am "a Big Insensitive Jerkface" like bloo.

Monty

[Ditchy McAbandonpants]

Thanks to discussions such as these, I finally got round to watching "Imposter's Home..." today, having actively sought it out; I had to see for myself what lay at the bottom of one of the most divisive issues in the Foster's roster. I don't know if anyone will still read this, but I'm typing out my thoughts for my own benefit too. Warning: LOOONG.

When I was a lot younger, my brother and I saw a cartoon - possibly Warner Bros, but I'm not sure - that left a lasting impression on us for all the wrong reasons. We can't remember exactly what it was called, so we just refer to it as "The Shep Cartoon". Essentially, the cartoon centred around a dog called Shep and his various misdemeanours and mishaps, all of which were (unwittingly as I recall) blamed upon the house cat, a well-meaning but timid creature. The nature of these incidents escalates until Shep inadvertedly endangers the life of another dog, whom the cat heroically rescues - all of which, again, is attributed to Shep. The cartoon ends, I vividly remember, with Shep being lauded, and the cat wailing and banging on the foot of a large Scale of Justice - which then falls on its head. It was, basically, the ultimate example of cruel, malicious humour done wrong, a complete mismanagement of audience sympathy and was totally out of line with the accepted concept of emotional setup and payoff.

I do not think that "Imposter's Home For Uh...Make 'Em Up Pals" is another "Shep Cartoon". It skirts close, thanks to a couple of key misjudgements and inconsistencies, but I don't think that, by design, this is a cruel or mean-spirited episode, unlike the one I've cited.

Goofball, clearly, is a key character here. For most of the episode, we're led to believe that he is a "Shep" of the highest order - a freeloading slacker and heartless opportunist who's willing not only to take advantage of Frankie's situation and the obliviousness of the other housemates to appease his own selfish needs, but to actually go out of of his way to make her life hell, torturing her and rubbing the whole unjust situation in her face. However, the episode's conclusion alters this outlook completely. Watching the episode again, bearing in mind this time that Goofball is actually telling the truth, and he's actually somewhat sympathetic. He IS a lost friend, separated from his family at the circus whilst off buying presents for them. He IS trying to learn how to drive so he can go home. He actually DOES want to ring them. Even the "homework" he makes Frankie do for him is actually an attempt to reunite with his family. Is he still annoying? Well yes, very - he's an oblivious blockhead who has little concept of how his actions affect those around him, but he's not actually being malicious about it. Heck, he's so stupid that you actually feel bad for him; he honestly can't remember what an imaginary friend is, and actually can't remember how to call home even though he wants to. Most tellingly of all, the episode's ending reveals that he does actually like and appreciate "Frannie" and her hard work, but just isn't on the ball enough to realise how he's inconvenienced her; something I think Frankie herself realises judging from her warm, understanding smile when Goofball presents her with the rubber nose.

Furthermore, Frankie does actually bring much of what befalls her upon herself via her not-quite-correct handling of the situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for a second that she actually DESERVES any of what happens, but the core source of Frankie's problems in this episode is her immediate, unshakeable assumption that Goofball is not an imaginary friend. It's that certainty that stops her from resolving the issue immediately; she's so vexed by the gall of this boy, and so astounded at the gullibility of the housemates, that it almost becomes a point of pride to let the farce play out until it inevitably comes crashing down...which of course, it doesn't, because he's telling the truth. Had this idea entered her head for even a second, she would have moved quickly and directly to find out the truth, and once she realised that he was for real, would have been able to cater for and deal with him far more effiiciently. As it was, her unassailable conviction in her own judgement lead her to try and wait to "catch him out", thus prolonging and actually increasing her own suffering.

However...

The problem with the episode as I saw it was not in its concept, but its execution, with key misjudgements and mismanagement of audience reaction turning moments that should be funny into ones that are deeply annoying and actually upsetting. Key to this is a gross underestimation of the audience's sympathy for Frankie. She is one of the most sympathetic, put-upon characters in the show, one who most viewers enjoy seeing things go right for, but that needn't have been a problem, providing they remember to play her dilemma for laughs. When I say that, I don't mean that we're laughing at her misery; we should be laughing because the nature of and maifestation of her misery is funny. Store Wars was a good example of how to do that right - poor Frankie was given the run-around by all and sundry for twenty minutes, but because it's funny to watch her being given the second degree by an unhelpful, sullen store clerk, only for her to run off with Mac, hide in a clothes rack then get arrested by Coco, we don't mind laughing at her, not with her.

There were points in this episode were they got this right. Frankie's "angry face" is funny, and we see it a few times here, whilst her dealings at the supermarket work well too, as she seethes away at the oblivious old lady. What derailed this episode was the concert angle; not only is it not a funny concept, they didn't even try to play it for laughs. First mentioning that Frankie only has one or two nights off a month, that she's really desperate to go, then making her miss it and showing her scrubbing the floor looking like she's about to burst into tears - that's just sad and tragic, and needlessly provokes an emotional reaction in the audience which is at odds with the mood they were aiming for with the rest of the episode, and which as a result they can never resolve or pay off. Frankie losing her "Frankie is Right" fund was also an unnecessary kick in the teeth, especially given that the primary causes of that loss were Bloo and Herriman, both of whom act contemptuously in this episode; neither of them have Goofball's ignorance excuse, and act by turns vindictive, exploitataive and completely unappreciative, further swinging sympathy too far in Frankie's direction for the episode to function correctly. It's like Elmer Fudd - it's funny watching Bugs Bunny getting one over on him and blowing him up. If they were to include a plot strand that states that Elmer's only out hunting to feed his starving family, you ruin the joke, and that's what happens too often in "Imposter's Home...", depsite a sound enough concept, for it to work.



PS - Oh my goodness!! I just previewed that post...I've written a freaking dissertation! Ah well, I feel better for having done it. I had been very conflicted about this episode, like a lot of people (especially big Frankie fans like I am), but I think I typed my frustrations out of my system now. I just apologise to anyone who wasted their time reading it all...not that anyone will.

[Partymember]

Originally Posted by Ditchy McAbandonpants

Furthermore, Frankie does actually bring much of what befalls her upon herself via her not-quite-correct handling of the situation.

Uh-oh...prepare for a verbal lambasting, my friend


i agree with you on that point, although I actually thought it was a good and funny episode. Everyone gets shafted once in a while. Big freakin' deal.

[Cassini90125]

Originally Posted by Partymember

Everyone gets shafted once in a while. Big freakin' deal.

For some of us it was indeed a "Big freakin' deal". I don't enjoy seeing the people I love get hurt under any circumstances, be it once in awhile or not.

[Partymember]

i realize that. I, too, love Frankie. However, since getting a bad hand is part of life, i think we need to accept it and get over it. Bad days are why god invented red wine, and a glass or two is the cure for most bad days. She has, i assume, quite recovered from her ordeal and she most certainly accepted it as a "bad day", so i see no reason why we can't accept it as thus and leave it be.

[Nathander]

Originally Posted by Ditchy McAbondonpants

Furthermore, Frankie does actually bring much of what befalls her upon herself via her not-quite-correct handling of the situation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for a second that she actually DESERVES any of what happens, but the core source of Frankie's problems in this episode is her immediate, unshakeable assumption that Goofball is not an imaginary friend. It's that certainty that stops her from resolving the issue immediately; she's so vexed by the gall of this boy, and so astounded at the gullibility of the housemates, that it almost becomes a point of pride to let the farce play out until it inevitably comes crashing down...which of course, it doesn't, because he's telling the truth. Had this idea entered her head for even a second, she would have moved quickly and directly to find out the truth, and once she realised that he was for real, would have been able to cater for and deal with him far more effiiciently. As it was, her unassailable conviction in her own judgement lead her to try and wait to "catch him out", thus prolonging and actually increasing her own suffering.

No offense, but I only really slightly agree with you on this point. While Frankie did handle the situation poorly and more emotionally then she should have, I think her belief that Goofball was a kid pretending to be an IF was well founded. There are few people who wouldn't be suspicious of Goofball, and the other two characters we see have any actual interaction with Goofball are Bloo and Herriman. The problem here is that Bloo tends to be oblivious to obvious details and facts, and Herriman was probably willing to take Goofball's word just on the idea that people have some form of honesty. Frankie was rightly unable to do so both because of Goofball's appearance AND Goofball's actions. That was a BIG problem for me; they made Goofball's actions far too similiar to a regular teen (I still don't understand why he had to do homework), and the fact that he was supposedly so stupid as to not be able to recall even his own name and where he lived added to this. I know it was intended to make the ending more ironic, but to me it just seemed fairly poorly conceived.

Also, even if Frankie had accepted the fact that Goofball was an IF early on, and that may have saved her from having to miss the concert, she STILL would have had to do a good deal more housework than usual because of Goofball's antics. Goofball's actions would have been the same regardless whether or not Frankie acknowledged him. The fact that he was hanging out with a hellion like Bloo didn't help matters either.

I agree with the majority of what else you said, however. Very well written explanation of how you felt about the topic.

[montitech]

Originally Posted by Ditchy McAbandonpants

.....

I do not think that "Imposter's Home For Uh...Make 'Em Up Pals" is another "Shep Cartoon". It skirts close, thanks to a couple of key misjudgements and inconsistencies, but I don't think that, by design, this is a cruel or mean-spirited episode, unlike the one I've cited.
...
...

Good post, and yes this thread has not yet dies, and at this rate it proboly never will.

a side comment, I actually misread the above sentence at first, Does/would it have meant the same like this:
It skirts close to a "Shep Cartoon." I don't think that this is a cruel or mean-spirited episode.

I agree with much of your comments particularly your observations of Goofball. However I disagree on the your comments about the execution of the episode. I would agree that the creators did not think about Frankie fans while making the episode, but I do not think they needed to. I believe this episode was never ment to be taken serious enough to Hurt any Fans. Frankie in may ways serves the role of the traditional Tragic Hero, with the fatal Flaw of "Pride" (Always having to be right). this episode opens with the assumption that frankie is always right, She had the Jar, and Bloo is always wrong. WHen Goofball apeared at the door, Frankie was faced with the delema of How to uncover that he was not a IF. in trying to do suck she lost Everything, (similar to many characters that fit the "Tragic Hero" label) With that said, I look at the end of the episode where frankie once again frankie is right and bloo forks over the coin, (That part had me in stiches after watching the episode)

I like frankie, but I do not love her as some other members may, so Maybe I am just not as sympathetic as I should be to her Blight. Maybe I just have a bad streak in me somewhere ( I do like playing Half Life) However I pose this question to Goofball Haters:
WHat whould you have thought If the whole episode was just a nightmare an frankie woke up in the end. How would this affect your opinions of this episode?


MOnty

[Howard]

Originally Posted by montitech

WHat whould you have thought If the whole episode was just a nightmare an frankie woke up in the end. How would this affect your opinions of this episode?


MOnty

Good post and a good question here. I happen to be a Frankie lover, but I also realize this is also a cartoon. While Goofball is the character you would love to hate, what would have happened if it was just a dream (albeit a bad one)? Naturally my reaction would have been 'oh just a dream.' (Sigh of relief)

[Voxxyn]

(Forget I ever said anything about "brief departure". I lied to myself, and I confess it. I've been having a great Christmas, BTW... but this remains a matter I can't easily forget)

Ditchy McAbandonpants, you make great points all around. There are a few things I'd like to say, though.

1. I refuse to show any pity to Goofball. As of right now, he doesn't deserve it. He was given special treatment the entire day. He became instant buddies with Bloo. He ate all of the house's food and didn't get punished for it. He had human friends nearby which he brought in(so much for him being a 'lonely, friendless boy'). He went to the very concert that he caused Frankie to miss. And in the end, he gets reunited with his family. Basically, everything went spectacularly right for Goofball and horribly wrong for Frankie.

I don't see how that deserves pity or remorse. It only deserves contempt.

2. You're right about Frankie's dilemma being funny when done proper. In that case, I'd like to add that the whole concept was once nailed down perfectly--and has now been tainted for me by this episode. Before, I could laugh and enjoy without worry episodes like "Store Wars" and "Bloooo"; but after this episode and it's "Frankie sucks" attitude, I worry that Frankie's future major roles will end up mistreating her as well. Even after "Setting A President", that fear is still firmly engraved inside of me.

To montitech,

If it were a dream, there would be the relief of knowing it never actually happened, and we would most likely get to see Frankie in her sexy nightgown from "Squeakerboxxx"... so I'd give it a C+. Still annoying, but no longer hurtful or cruel.

And BTW, I'm a Half-Life fan as well.