Dragonball Z: The Live-Action Movie

[frankie_fan]

I read somewhere that someone suggested Hugh Jackman as Goku.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

That is true, supposedly when they started doing this he was originally cast as Goku and he was fired just as quickly. Of what I understood, Ray Park, Jessica Alba, Hugh Jackman, and Bill Goldberg were the only celebrities who were actually confronted and MOST LIKELY to have discussed these roles.

While most of the names are just hearsay, those I listed above had the best chance of being accurate. They also mentioned rumors of George Lucas doing the special effects while Dean Devilin (producer of 1998 Godzilla, Independence Day, Day After tomorrow) was going to pay for the film.

The original rumored film was supposed to start in the Saiyans saga, going straight through Raditz and stopping after the defeat of Vegeta to set up the Namek/Frieza saga. But if the casting sheet for this accurate DBZ movie is correct, were going way back to Dragon Ball to Piccolo's father and PILAF.

I recall seeing Mai being mentioned in there and Mai was apart of Emperor Pilaf's little gang of villains so we might even see him in there as well.

[Medikor]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marshmallow

I recall seeing Mai being mentioned in there and Mai was apart of Emperor Pilaf's little gang of villains so we might even see him in there as well.

To me it looks more like they're doing Dragon Ball with Pilaf's gang but replaced Pilaf with Piccolo. This movie certainly does have a chance for greatness but I can see the purists and hardcore DBZ fans (wich there are a lot of from what I hear) are going to rip it apart every step of the way. This is starting to sound like Transformer all over again, and that movie did very well.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Well don't forget, that casting list was strictly for the primary actors they are looking for. Pilaf also had a dog like sidekick named Shou and I personally think the reason we didn't see them listed is possibly because they will be brought to life through different means.

Such as puppet displays or CGI. I don't think there going to bother hiring midget actors to play them so I think CGI or something will be the next logical step. Also don't forget that it was Pilaf who originally released Piccolo Daimiou from the Mafuba jar. Or perhaps they will tweak it and just have Mai appear.

I am also a hardcore DBZ nut but like Transformers, I won't have any problems or be so uptight to object to inevitable changes. So long as they don't completely butcher the characters personalities or appearances so drastically that we can't identify them, I think I'll be just fine.

But for anyone who is skeptical about a live DBZ movie I suggest you do as I do, wait until you see it before you knock it. Every movie based on a comic, anime, toon, or TV show is faced with skeptical looks and quips. Wait until you see some images, cast updates, and most importantly, a trailer.

I think people judge things too quickly before they see anything produced by the movie, and 9 times out 10 most people who hate the films they hear about change their mind once they get a glimpse of the trailer.

[frankie_fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marshmallow

I think people judge things too quickly before they see anything produced by the movie, and 9 times out 10 most people who hate the films they hear about change their mind once they get a glimpse of the trailer.

I agree. When I go onto YouTube, I see comments on the Get Smart trailer about how 'it's going to be like an American version of Johnny English', which really annoys me considering that I did enjoy Johnny English, and that Get Smart is no different to it!

[Nathander]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marshmallow

But for anyone who is skeptical about a live DBZ movie I suggest you do as I do, wait until you see it before you knock it.

Thing is, there's already been a live action DB movie that was done years before. And it was utter trash. Even though it was low budget, I don't think it could have been helped having been trash even if it had a humongous budget.

Here's the thing: I adore Dragon Ball Z. I grew up watching this series. But I don't want a live action movie, because no matter who they cast (and, incidentally, no American actor can hope to correctly portray any character in that series realistically well) and no matter what the expense, it just won't go over well.

For one thing, I feel putting it in live action takes away part of the magic of the series that was made through Toriyama's artwork. In my mind, it NEEDS to be animated, otherwise it simply won't work, as I feel many of the combat sequences would seem extremely awkward in live action. I just don't feel it can be done very well, let alone by an American studio and by American actors. This is a complaint I also have with the Neon Genesis Evangelion movie that keeps popping up, and again this is something I have an argument against: having a primarily American cast portraying primarily Japanese characters simply doesn't work in my mind. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. And the list of voted on actors, though unlikely they'd get/go for the roles, are simply terrible. None of them would truly work very well, and I couldn't imagine any of them in those roles.

Really, there are only two anime/manga franchises I can think of that could work if a movie was made by an American company: Cowboy Bebop and Hellsing (and even then, preferably a movie based on the OVAs and manga and not the godawful TV version with Incognito). There are a few other animes I could see being made by an American studio with American actors, but very, very few.

So I love DBZ, but I hope this project gets scrapped.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

The thing is though it WON'T get scrapped, it's highly unlikely considering the fact they have a casting list and a director announced. The thing is while I can relate to you worrying about them butchering the show, the fact of the matter is if you followed that kind of formula we wouldn't have ANY movie based off anything.

No character can truly 100% accurately depict a character in a movie version of a book, cartoon, or comic book but it's just being shameful not to at least try. You will never get perfection and to be honest, I don't want perfection. No one wants to see a show translated completely to the big screen without changes.

Otherwise, you just watching the exact same thing, you need the differences and the changes. Granted some changes work better then others, I think it's too great an opportunity to ignore simply because they can't "portray Japanese". Dragon ball Z has a universe of powers, aliens, and worlds akin to Star Wars.

And if Star Wars can be accomplished, so can Dragon Ball. Also in regards to that Japanese Dragon Ball movie, I bet my life that there is NO WAY IN HELL they will blow it as badly as that movie did. Dragon Ball Z is one of the big top 3 famous world wide known anime in the US (other 2 being Sailor Moon and Pokemon).

I think they will do this movie at least some justice because of the popularity of DB here in America, DBGT alone did WAY better here in the US then it did from Japan so that already shows you different nations reactions. I also believe that this is good because it will help make people more aware of DBZ.

It generates interest into things people are not familiar with, like V for Vendetta or Hellboy. I knew nothing about either of those series and yet the movies inspired me to read up a little on them. Dragon Ball is an amazing story with an incredible cast of characters and the BEST fighting scenes ever.

Considering I've seen plenty of US movies depict some of the greatest fighting sequences in RL, I can only imagine how a DBZ fight can look on the big screen. And on top of it all, no one is forcing you to watch it Nathander. The film does not have to be junked to avoid it, you simply don't pay to go see it.

Movies don't hold you at gunpoint hostage, people choose to drive to the theaters and pay to see them and if what you see from DBZ's live movie upsets you then don't see it. Making this DBZ movie will not kill my love for DBZ nor will any fan die from the film itself so don't stress over it.

In regards to Hellsing, I loved the TV version and Incognito as I think he is one of the few cool anime villains that don't come from DBZ (DBZ has the BEST anime villains I've seen compared to any other series).

[Medikor]

I think the major concern people have is how to portray all the signature DBZ action in a live movie. Flying, shooting energy blasts, and powering up with a fiery aura and golden hair could end up looking very goofy.
I would feel bad if they use the Matrix movies as a template for the fighting. All the Matrix effects have become so cliche'd and almost a parody of itself. The fight in the third Matrix film is a good example. It was hard not to laugh when the characters were flying around and duking it out. But that's just me, I'm sure many people loved it.
I'm not a big DBZ fan by any stretch, but I would like to see this movie done well. The series has a huge and devoted following and deserves to be done justice. There is the chance that it could end up being the break through movie of the decade. Like Mr.M said, we just need to wait for a trailer to get an idea of how it's coming along.

[Nathander]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marshmallow

No character can truly 100% accurately depict a character in a movie version of a book, cartoon, or comic book but it's just being shameful not to at least try. You will never get perfection and to be honest, I don't want perfection. No one wants to see a show translated completely to the big screen without changes.

I agree, and I don't ask for perfection. I simply ask that they at least make the cast they assign believable when in comparison to the source material, something I just don't see possible with an American cast. However, there are indeed stories I'd like to be portrayed on the screen without too many changes due to how wonderful the story presented by the actual author is, but that's just me.

Otherwise, you just watching the exact same thing, you need the differences and the changes. Granted some changes work better then others, I think it's too great an opportunity to ignore simply because they can't "portray Japanese". Dragon ball Z has a universe of powers, aliens, and worlds akin to Star Wars.

It's not necessarily not just because they aren't Japanese, but the fact that I can't imagine a single American actor in any of those roles, as well as keeping the same names of the characters. It just doesn't add up, and it asks for the audience, especially those familiar with the source material, to make too much of a suspension of disbelief.

As for the reference to Star Wars....what's your point, exactly? That several stories can be told in that universe? I agree. However, this still doesn't change the fact that this movie will most likely have an unsuitable cast, as well as an unsuitable script and director. Unless the argument your making is that they could make entirely new characters and cast to fit an American cast, at which point why bother to even call in Dragon Ball Z?

And if Star Wars can be accomplished, so can Dragon Ball. Also in regards to that Japanese Dragon Ball movie, I bet my life that there is NO WAY IN HELL they will blow it as badly as that movie did. Dragon Ball Z is one of the big top 3 famous world wide known anime in the US (other 2 being Sailor Moon and Pokemon).

I never said it couldn't be accomplished; I simply said it couldn't be accomplished well. Look at Star Wars: Episodes 4-6 were wonderful, but 1-3 were some of the worst tripe ever printed onto film.

And of course there's a chance that they can blow it. In fact, there's a much higher chance they'll blow this even worse then the original Japanese movie. While we now have much better graphics, this still doesn't change the fact that the American film is being written by an entirely different culture then the source material, and thus might have a completely different view from the original manga/anime, which could ultimately ruin the spirit of it. The original Japanese film was trash because it was low budget and camp; this will be trash because, despite it's high budget, it will practically have to use a cast unsuited to the characters they'd be playing, and the film may very well lose the spirit and sense of wonder of the comic.

And just because something is well known and well respected and loved doesn't mean that it'll be given a good movie adaptation. The Final Fantasy game series, for example, is well respected and love, and the first film treatment it got was terrible, and the second (based around FF VII) was only eye candy with utterly nothing else going for it. Being loved and respected does not guarentee quality when it is adapted into a film.

I think they will do this movie at least some justice because of the popularity of DB here in America, DBGT alone did WAY better here in the US then it did from Japan so that already shows you different nations reactions. I also believe that this is good because it will help make people more aware of DBZ.

Which is especially sad, as DBGT was a terrible series. Toriyama himself was disgusted with it, as it was a continuation of his story that he had no part in and that he hadn't wanted to continue. While it has it's moments like any story, that doesn't change the fact that DBGT was an insult to DB and DBZ fans. Maybe this just goes to show that American consumers are more willing to watch something that's terrible, but I hope that isn't the case.

And I highly doubt there's many people except for those in their forties who don't know what DBZ is in this country by now.

It generates interest into things people are not familiar with, like V for Vendetta or Hellboy. I knew nothing about either of those series and yet the movies inspired me to read up a little on them.

Unfortunately, the V for Vendetta comic surprised those who saw the movie first, as both are fairly different. And that's the thing that bothers me: when stories are changed so much in their adaptations that they no longer become the stories they were adapting. I haven't read Hellboy, so I can't comment on that though.

Dragon Ball is an amazing story with an incredible cast of characters and the BEST fighting scenes ever.

I agree the cast is remarkable. However, while the story is entertaining, from the perspective of a fiction writer it's fairly bare bones and basic. It's hardly something new or inventive, and has a tendency to be bare or especially simple in plot. Despite this, it makes itself endearing due to the likeable characters and Toriyama's art. It is hardly a great story, though the story is still entertaining.

As for the fight sequences....while wonderful, there are several anime they have surpassed DBZ by this point in terms of the details of fight sequences, such as Bleach and Hellsing Ultimate.

Considering I've seen plenty of US movies depict some of the greatest fighting sequences in RL, I can only imagine how a DBZ fight can look on the big screen.

I'm not saying there aren't good fight choreographers and stuntsmen; there are several, and many of them are magnificent. It's just like what Medikor says, though; I have a hard time picturing real life humans performing the actions shown in the anime due to how outrageously goofy it would look.

And on top of it all, no one is forcing you to watch it Nathander. The film does not have to be junked to avoid it, you simply don't pay to go see it.

Movies don't hold you at gunpoint hostage, people choose to drive to the theaters and pay to see them and if what you see from DBZ's live movie upsets you then don't see it. Making this DBZ movie will not kill my love for DBZ nor will any fan die from the film itself so don't stress over it.

And so, despite being a fan of the series, when I say I have no intention of seeing this film I have to immediately stop commenting on it? I have no idea where I said I was being forced to go see this film, and I didn't say it had to be junked in order to be avoided. I'm simply saying that it will be a calamity, and that I have no intention of paying to see it.

Neither did I say this movie would kill my love for the series; I'm simply lamenting the fact that it's being put in less then capable hands for the material, as well as the fact that its not a show you can realistically ADAPT to the movie screen in live action. Nor am I stressing over it being made: rather, I'm simply stating my opinion on how I feel it will end.

In regards to Hellsing, I loved the TV version and Incognito as I think he is one of the few cool anime villains that don't come from DBZ (DBZ has the BEST anime villains I've seen compared to any other series).

My problem with Incognito is that he came off like a bad fanfic villain while in comparison to the villains of the actual manga and the recent OVA series. He was basically just an inverted version of Alucard. Alucard has pistols with blessed bullets, Incognito had chainguns with bullets infused with black magic. Both are vampires, and both are controlled by humans. In the end, Incognito gains the abilities of fusing with Set, which put him slightly on par with Alucard. Like the entire series after episode 6 (the Valentine Arc), the original Hellsing series became less an adaption of the manga and more a bad fanfiction based around it with meaningless new characters (the only good one of the original characters added to the series being Helena) and a convoluted plot about Super Produced Vampires.

The original series of Hellsing is guilty of several more crimes against the original series, such as changing the deep, complex and dynamic characters of Father Alexander Anderson, Alucard, and Integra into flat, one dimensional characters, constantly changing animation studies (which is the reason for the constantly fluctuating animation quality between episodes seven to thirteen), and many more, the only redeeming part being the soundtrack. There are several other things I could say and explain, but I'll leave that for another thread, and simply say that you should buy the OVA series in order to see what you missed due to the hackjob that was the initial TV series. I had a soft place in my heart for the TV series still, despite my warring against it (it introduced me to Hellsing), but after reading the manga, it's hard to take the series seriously anymore.

As for DBZ having the best villains....well, each villain is basically exactly the same. They're all evil for evil's sake, and no other reason (except to show how strong they are occasionally, or again, simply to be evil). While they're entertaining while they're being evil, none of them are especially deep or fleshed out (except for Androids 16, 17 and 18, who really aren't villains anyway). There are several series that have better villains, such as Millennium (Hellsing), the Arrancar and Sosuke Aizen (Bleach), the Millennium Earl and Clan of Noah (D.Gray Man), Udo Jin-e, Shishio Makoto, and Yukishiro Enishi (Rurouni Kenshin), and the Akatsuki (Naruto). All of those characters are much better, fully realized villains then the villains in DBZ.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

I'm not gonna pick apart what you said for several reasons:

1. It doesn't help anything.
2. Your already negatively calling the film trash and not even giving it a benefit of a doubt so that already is a step backwards.
3. I never said they couldn't blow it, I said they couldn't blow it as bad as the Japanese movie. This movie will be far from boring no matter what they do.
4. I HIGHLY disagree to GT being a bad series, I've been to several cons with people saying they liked it and I consider that a gross missassumption that American consumers like "bad taste" when what is considered bad is debatable.
Also for the record, I never found any record Toriyama saying he personally disliked GT, just that he didn't want to be involved.

Finally in regards to the villains, that one I do want to talk about because I love any talk about villain related issues. DBZ villains are not the same nor do they desire the same thing. Frieza was a monster who enjoyed killing everything that existed, he was a sadistic abomination who enjoyed that.

Cell acted quite different, he didn't mercilessly kill everyone he met nor did he originally desire to take over the world. If you recall, Cell's only mission in life was to become perfect, after that his programming came to an end and he could choose his own life. Gero never told him what to do after that.

The Ginyu Force alone are unique, original villains. Villains don't need a reason to be evil, evil never did nor has it needed a reason to be evil. There are plenty of shows that have villains that don't explain how there evil or why they do it, in fact, majority of all villains are like that.

Trigun, Sailor Moon, Digimon, Ah My Goddess, Tenchi Muyo, Sonic the hedgehog, Slayers, Blue Seed. All of those shows and more have villains who have no explanations why they are evil. Explanations are overrated anyway. Not everything needs a desire or a special origins to explain why its evil.