Cartoon Crushes?

[pitbulllady]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marshmallow

Randall makes life stressful for himself though. He purposely gets in confrontations with both Mike and Sulley, and doesn't even appreciate those who work for him, let alone the people he hates. Randall's a villain through and through, he's even worse then Waternoose in the movie. Waternoose may have proven to be cold as ice when he said he'd take a thousand children just to save his company, but he also showed regret and sympathy towards what happened to Sulley. He wasn't entirely thrilled with Boggs idea of stealing screams either, he even said "you're not half the monster sulley is".

I absolutely beg...no, DEMAND, to differ with you there! You've insulted me, and no, I'm NOT kidding. I don't bash YOUR favorites, so be prepared for a long defense of Randall Boggs, written from the perspective of a working adult who's been through a lot of what he has, and understands first-hand that no matter how "good" a person you THINK you are, we all have limits.

Randall had no choice but to build the Scream Extractor and choose a human child to test it on. His boss, Mr. Waternoose, controlled his every move and masterminded the whole thing. Waternoose had no qualms about illegally "banishing" his own best friend, Sulley, when SULLEY crossed him, and it was clear that he had no love lost for Randall whatsoever, so what do you suppose he would have done if RANDALL had disobeyed him? I've been in that very situation-given a choice by a corrupt supervisor between committing a felony and losing my job, my sole means of support. I know exactly what it is like, and the toll it takes on you emotionally, to work for someone who hates you. I know what it's like to see that person's friends and family members who work for the same organization get treated like royalty while I got treated like crap. I know what it will do to your personality, too, and how you treat others. Been There, Done That. AGAIN, for those who are short of either real-life experience or common sense, or both, WATERNOOSE, NOT Randall, came up with the whole idea of building the Scream Extractor AND kidnapping children. NO big-shot CEO, anywhere in the Universe, in this dimension or any other, is going to pay any attention to some idea from some lowly Nobody like Randall Boggs, who, to make matters worse, is of a racial minority(only scaly, reptilian monster) at that! That would be like the guy who scrubs toilets at Microsoft's offices approaching Bill Gates with an idea for a new computer chip-AIN'T gonna happen, kiddo! The Universe just does not work that way.

Randall does NOT "purposefully get into confrontations with Mike and Sulley". Mike started the whole thing, because like Bloo, he doesn't find anyone else's jokes funny. He can't take a PRANK played on him by a co-worker, and yeah, that WAS a prank that Randall pulled in the locker room-silly and immature, yes, but I've done similar things and had similar things done to ME by co-workers, to relieve stress on the job, and I was able to laugh it off. Mike, however, feels the need to bring up Randall's second-place position and boast about how he and Sulley(as IF Mike was doing the Scaring himself)are going to beat Randall at breaking the All-Time Scare Record.

We also find out that Randall has apparently been working on designing and building that machine, down in that dark refinery, for two years. I seriously doubt that Waternoose is the patient type, either, who simply would say, "Oh, take as long as you need on this, dear boy"; that SOOO would NOT have happened! He would have, especially in the final days leading up to that movie, been breathing down the back of Randall's neck like a nightmare, constantly reminding him that he was in second place, how lousy a Scarer he was compared to Mr. Wonderful and Furry, and what sort of vile things were going to happen if Mr. Boggs didn't get that machine finished and tested YESTERDAY! I've worked for more than my share of Waternooses, and I know that is how they operate. All this time, of course, Randall still has to work his regular nine-to-five, so no one will be suspicious. And WHEN does that leave for working on the Scream Extractor? Why most nights, of course, along with holidays and weekends...for two friggin' YEARS! Did you know that sleep deprivation is so detrimental to one's mental, emotional and physical health that the Geneva Convention classifies it as TORTURE? Probably not. Now, imagine giving up every free moment you have-every weekend, every holiday, and much of your nights-to spend down in a virtual dungeon slaving away on some machine for someone who hates your guts and never wastes an opportunity to tell you so. Any social life, even that on the internet, that you had would be history. Go ahead, too, and imagine that you CANNOT TELL ANYONE about this, under possible threat on your life! If Randall had had a wife/girlfriend prior to the events of the movie, what do you suppose SHE would have thought, when he started coming home in the wee hours of the morning, all tired and worn out, and started disappearing over the weekends, and the holidays, and refused to tell her what was going on? I bet most female members on this forum would have a really easy answer for THAT one, right, ladies? Not many gals are gonna put up with that, so on top of the sleep loss, the loss of all free/leisure time, Randall most likely would have had a nasty break-up or divorce to deal with, along with the financial sucker-punch that those often bring. He would have just had to let her go; he would not have even been able to tell her!

Now, Mr. Marshmellow, think that YOU would still be Mr. Warmth and Personality after going through all THAT for two years? If you think so, buddy boy, you're kidding yourself, 'cause you definately ain't kidding ME! I don't consider myself an "evil" person, though like everyone else, YOU included, I have my limits, and I'm certainly capable of doing "evil" things. I found myself, as a naive and ignorant Twenty-Something(same age as Randall, who is 25 in the movie), in a similar predicament, like I said. I came pretty darn close to killing someone, I really did. I fantasized about it, since in my stress-induced condition, I had to emotionally find a scapegoat. It was either that, or take my own life. I was like a coyote in a steel trap by that point. I can therefore absolutely, 100% identify with, and understand, Randall's emotional state. If that is what constitutes being a "villain", well, I guess I'm as evil as they get, right? Of course, when I was young and naive, I NEVER would have IMAGINED that I'd ever get to such a low point; I was a good girl after all, and Good People don't do things like that, do they? It's so easy to point fingers when you've never Been There, Done That, or known closely someone who has. Believe me, Karma has much in store for the Perfect People(or so they think) in the world, and it's not gonna be pretty. As a teenager, I would have been the first to point out how "evil" Randall was, but my perspective, as an adult, is quite different, thanks to Karma kicking MY butt a time or two! I got through those dark times because I had something that Randall does not-a FAMILY. I DID have someone to talk to, a shoulder to cry on, somebody I knew would always be there, no matter what. They pulled me in from the brink, before it was too late. I don't think that Randall HAS a family. If YOU disappeared one day from school, or work, how would YOUR family react? Would they just sit by and say nothing while the last person you were seen with gets promoted to some important position? Would they just sit by while that person's buddy puts on a public "company play" in which YOU are ridiculed in front of everyone? If you can answer "yes" to either one of those questions, I feel very, very sorry for you. You're in worse shape than either myself OR Randall, and don't even know it.

Now, how do I know that Randall wasn't always a nasty jerk who had trouble getting along with co-workers? Easy...I WORK for a living. I know that companies do NOT put up with trouble-makers. They don't have to, since there's always somebody just as qualified to do your job, if you can't get along with others. As I've stated, stress WILL change your personality for the worst, though, and turn a person who'se normally easy to get along with into a total jerk...or worse. Everybody has their limits, and for Randall to have coped with all that for two years, his limits were a whole lot higher to begin with that mine every were! Even Wilt has shown that it doesn't take much-certainly not two years' worth-of acute stress to make HIM resort to violence(and I would call deliberately pushing Mr. Herriman down the stairs "violence")and snapping at people. I'd really hate to run into Wilt after two years of the same level of stress that he went through in either "Hiccy Burp" or "Bus The Two of Us", IF he survived that long, that is! Funny how no one considers Wilt to be a "villain" though, since we do get to see his good side, too, AND he's not scaly and reptilian, either.

Sorry to those who are more open-minded and DON'T bash others' favorites for the long diatribe, but I got the title PIT BULLlady honestly, since like my namesake canines, I don't put up with attacks on my favorites or anything or anyone I care about, and I don't turn tail and run like a wall-jumping cur, either.


pitbulllady

[BlooCheese]

Originally Posted by rukift

My biggest cartoon crush that I've ever had is pikachu. Guys, seriously, don't lay a finger on him. He's mine.

OMG. Pikachu! Sorry, I couldn't help but laugh. You're the first person I've heard of who has a crush on a Pokemon.

Pikachu's cute and all, but I'd never be able to form any kind of crush on it. That's just me, though.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

Originally Posted by pitbulllady

I absolutely beg...no, DEMAND, to differ with you there! You've insulted me, and no, I'm NOT kidding. I don't bash YOUR favorites, so be prepared for a long defense of Randall Boggs..

Sorry to those who are more open-minded and DON'T bash others' favorites for the long diatribe, but I got the title PIT BULLlady honestly, since like my namesake canines, I don't put up with attacks on my favorites or anything or anyone I care about, and I don't turn tail and run like a wall-jumping cur, either.

...........okay seriously, no offense here, but you need to relax. That was NOT an attack, I'd hardly even register that as an attack. I didn't bash Randal and I think you're taking this far deeper into consideration then it needs to be and your taking this more personally then it needs to be.

I never stated any direct or subtle insults, nor did I call Randal any names or mock him in anyway. And most importantly, 2 things:

1. Waternoose DID have a problem with banishing Sulley, if there's one thing I have learned from watching villains is that there is a difference between being bad and being pure evil. Compassion, sympathty, or any kind of sentimental attachment to a person is a sign of emotion, not a heartless person.

Scar is a fine example. He doesn't care about anyone but himself, he sold out his own troops at the fall of a hat and murdered his own brother and attempted to do the same to his own son.

2. By saying "worse" I do NOT mean he's a crappy character or that he sucks, I mean worse as he eviller, meaner, nastier, a darker baddie then Waternoose is what I was getting at. Watch Randal's lines, his reactions to others, his overall mood, and everything about him in comparison to what Waternoose does.

Randal doesn't care about anymore but himself. This is not an attack, this is not an insult, this is what the movie SHOWS. You're taking a personal opinion to heart and you shouldn't, especially since that's all this is, an opinion. I never attacked, slandered, bashed, flamed or insulted Randal ANYWHERE in my statement.

[pitbulllady]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marshmallow

...........okay seriously, no offense here, but you need to relax. That was NOT an attack, I'd hardly even register that as an attack. I didn't bash Randal and I think you're taking this far deeper into consideration then it needs to be and your taking this more personally then it needs to be.

I never stated any direct or subtle insults, nor did I call Randal any names or mock him in anyway. And most importantly, 2 things:

1. Waternoose DID have a problem with banishing Sulley, if there's one thing I have learned from watching villains is that there is a difference between being bad and being pure evil. Compassion, sympathty, or any kind of sentimental attachment to a person is a sign of emotion, not a heartless person.

Scar is a fine example. He doesn't care about anyone but himself, he sold out his own troops at the fall of a hat and murdered his own brother and attempted to do the same to his own son.

2. By saying "worse" I do NOT mean he's a crappy character or that he sucks, I mean worse as he eviller, meaner, nastier, a darker baddie then Waternoose is what I was getting at. Watch Randal's lines, his reactions to others, his overall mood, and everything about him in comparison to what Waternoose does.

Randal doesn't care about anymore but himself. This is not an attack, this is not an insult, this is what the movie SHOWS. You're taking a personal opinion to heart and you shouldn't, especially since that's all this is, an opinion. I never attacked, slandered, bashed, flamed or insulted Randal ANYWHERE in my statement.

I understood perfectly well what you meant. Just because a person shows regret for doing something wrong, but does it anyway, does not indicate "compassion". The fact that Waternoose did that to someone who'd earlier told him "you've been like a father to me" in the first place is a sign that HE cares only about himself and making more money for his company. If he would do that to an old FRIEND who'd crossed him, what do you suppose he would have done to someone like Randall, someone he clearly disliked, if Randall had refused to follow his orders, or told someone about the project? Randall KNEW that his own life was on the line if he failed to comply with any of Waternoose's orders, and having that sort of proverbial gun to your head 24/7, for two YEARS, will certainly turn the nicest, sweetest person into an ogre!

I've also clearly explained WHY Randall acted so "mean" and "nasty", as you put it. I've been THROUGH that myself, and I've experienced first-hand what that sort of prolonged stress can and WILL do to someone, even someone who's always, for the most part, been thought of as a "nice" person and always considered themselves basically to be a nice person. I have gotten to the part where I was, all the time, a total (correct term for a female dog) towards everyone, but even worse on myself, due to things that were going on at work. Anyone who can point a finger and say that someone is "evil", when they have only seen a PART of that person, is showing lack of real-world experience. Like I said, when I was in high school or college, if I'd seen the movie then, I probably would have felt just like you do, since I'd basically lived a very sheltered life with few really bad experiences. I knew nothing then of how the Real World works. Now, though, much later in life, I've learned the hard way not to be too quick to judge someone until you know, as Paul Harvey puts it, "the REST of the story". I've LIVED the "rest of the story", in a situation very similar to Randall's, right down to being the "outcast" who was perceived as "different" from those I had to work with, so his reactions are not surprisingly very similar to mine. The main differences have to do with the fact that he probably had no real choice-he HAD to cooperate with his boss, and being fired would have been the least of his problems if he hadn't.

IF Randall "didn't care about anyone but himself", explain THIS action: in the Door Vault scene, he grabs Boo after she slips from Sulley's grip(yes, she slips, Randall does NOT snatch her away from him)and prevents her from falling. Later, while he's carrying her, she starts to slip a bit from his own grip, and he pulls her up closer. He'd been ordered by Waternoose to kill all the witnesses, Boo included, so why doesn't he? I know some dimwit will probably say, "Because he was gonna test that machine on her and she needed to be alive", BUT, what had happened to that machine by that point, hmmm? Sulley had totally destroyed it, and it would have taken months to repair, IF it could be repaired at all, so that argument won't cut it. Why didn't Randall just kill Boo there and then; he could simply have dropped her and let her fall, but he doesn't. In fact, he never yells at her, or speaks angrily to HER, or hurts her, but at the worst, seems detached from her, not having gotten a chance to know her as a sentient being. Still, she was of no use to him by that point, so keeping her alive would have been a dangerous thing to do, with the CDA everywhere, unless of course, he intended to put her back in her room.

There is an old proverb, that's good advice, "An open enemy is still better than a pretend friend". That applies to people like Randall and Waternoose. It's far easier to deal with someone that you KNOW dislikes you, and Randall at least was open and honest about how he felt about people. He'd let you know exactly where you stood with him. Waternoose, on the other hand, was one of those people who smile in your face and gain your trust, only to misuse it and turn it against you later on down the road. They lie, they manipulate, and they use others to their advantage, all the while putting up a front of being nice. THAT is the sort of person who will do the worst to you, given the opportunity, but I suspect that some people are going to have to learn this lesson the hard way, as I have.

pitbulllady

[Tonya]

Woah, when pitbulllady gets mad she writes a novel! I don't mean to butt in, but can I share my opinion? Well actually, it's more of a comment.

I can understand a bit where pitbulllady's coming from. I'm a good girl, a nice girl in general, the kind of person who will be more than happy to talk with someone about their problams in life if they need to. But a few years of hell WILL tick me of. No, I am not cussimg, but I certantly have felt like I was in the actual place before, as pibulllady put it, "Been There, Done That". Gee were do I start?
Well, I have been Home-schooled my whole life exept for my first few weeks of going to school for the first time this year. Okay, for all those years I've never really had any friends, and most of my time I was kept in the house because since we live in a bad neighborhood my mom didin't want me outside just all the time. But even more than that she's a socialphobic who can't handle the thoughts of going out and that was/still is the main reasn why she don't want me out, she says she needs me. I guess I make her feel safe being with her 24-7 or something. So imagine being pinned up in the house with your mom for most of your life. I craved being out and having friends, having a social life, but you can't have one if your mom is a socialphobic who's obsessed with you. Think I craved being out then?
Oh sweetheart, you won't know how bad you'll want out untill your alchoholic, drug addicted, constantly screaming, cursing, wife beating, homeless, freeloading 32 yr old brother and his wife comes in to live with you and your mom in a small 2 bedroom apt. on and off for more than 7 years! You just wouldin't understand what it's like. Nobody I know does. I had no peers to relate to/still dont, and understand what it was like to live with that for more than 7 years, only my imaginary friends, but that's a different story.

I was literally loosing my mind, slowly, and it was a torture. I'm serious. You might be thinking that mom couldiv'e kicked him outta the house if she wanted right? No, he would have just argued with her. Now mom wasin't as sickly then as she is now, I think that my brother drove her more downhill into sickliness, both physically and mentally.

I would just sit there and shake and cry while he went about the house yelling at everybody and me because he may have lost one of his pills or something.
I feel kinda bad for admitting this but I actually thought of things to stop it all...to stop him. I mean rather morbid things that would consist of stoping him. I just can't bring myself to say it. But I sometimes thought about it. Sometimes I'd be in the kitchen, glancing at those knifes and thinking, The next time he starts screaming..... I woundered how I would do it and stuff.
I even thought of slipping pills into his drinks, but I only stoped myself from doing any of it cause I knew I couldin't live with the guilt.

My goodness, you guys are discussing Montsers Inc. and I'm just typng away about my auto biography that nobody asked to hear. I guess I was just relating to the things pitbulllady said and stuff, and I wanted to get it all off my chest anyway since it all reminded me of myself.

[pitbulllady]

No, that's fine, Tonya; you made a good point, that being that ANYBODY, no matter how "nice" a person they are, can be pushed only so far. ANYONE, when under enough stress, will do awful things and behave in very unpleasant ways. I mean, we have seen on Foster's that WILT, of all people, can be pushed into doing some bad things and has "triggers" that prompt him to be a rather nasty individual. What would your opinion of Wilt be, for example, if the only episode you've seen him in was "Beat With a Schtick"? We only get to see Randall in Monsters, Inc. following TWO FREAKIN' YEARS of acute, intense physical and mental stress. If Wilt can be a nasty person from time to time due to things HE is going through, or has been through in his past, why is it any bigger leap of logic to assume that Randall, had he not been in that situation, could not have at least been a fairly easy-to-get-along-with guy, more of a "healthy" Type Three Personality? I've lived long enough, seen enough and done enough, to know that there is no such thing as a truely evil person or a totally good person. Everyone of us has the equal capacity for BOTH, depending on our circumstances. Randall is no more, or less, evil than I am, or you, or Wilt, or anyone else. He is simply an ordinary individual caught up in something way over his head, something he has no control over, and had basically been pushed to that wild animal survival mode we all possess. I've been there, Tonya's been there(without even being nearly as old as I am), so we understand. It was easy for the filmmakers to use him as the "red herring", to take away attention from the REAL villain(Waternoose), and to make him an object of deep hatred simply because he's scaly and reptilian, so they were counting on that hate/fear of reptiles that many people have to sway their opinions of Randall. Had he been furry, he would not have seemed anywhere near as menacing to most people. He's also the only reptilian monster in that whole movie, if you don't count Celia Mae's "hair", so I have to wonder if he's always been hated and treated with suspicion in HIS world, because of that. If you tell someone they're "bad" based on their appearance for long enough, they'll start to prove you right.

pitbulllady

[Tonya]

Thank you pitbulllady, for understanding.
This whole topic reminds me of that movie, "Carrie". She was so mistreated by everybody and her mom that she finally just snapped and burned everything. This also reminds me of a movie called "Castle Freak". It's about this guy, Giorgio, who was kept in a dungeon for over fifty years since he was five, being beaten with a cat-o-nine tales and starved by his mom, and when he escapes he goes around killing people. I think he did it cause he was just an angry, starving, guy who didini't know any better. This poor fellow didin't even look remotly human.
I cried when he died at the end. Okay, I felt compassion for him, but mom hated him. She thought of him as a cold-hearted murderer. I mean come on, he was five when he got thrown in the dungeon! How COULD he know all the chaos he caused? I thought of him as a starved, abused animal who needed help, desperatly. It's one of those H. P. Lovecraft films. If you'd watch the movie you might see why I felt sorry for him. Most people would hate him of course.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

.....Okay I said my piece, and clearly the point isn't getting across because I think this is already going too far out of the topic and the context of the thread. Your looking way too deeply into this to try and prove everything I say is wrong.

And I'm trying to be polite here and be honest to say, I am not getting into this. This has already become an out of control war where we pick apart each other's words and I don't want to get into this so please, stop trying to convince me because I am not here to fight.

I am saying this to end my involvement with this because my point has been completely ignored and I am not going to help drag this out into a larger issue.

[Sparky]

Thanks Mr M. If pbl or anyone else wants to pursue this topic that's fine, but it needs to be done in its own thread, because this one is kinda lying bleeding on the floor now, poor thing.

[DoubleLatte]

...all I said was that I liked Randall. :p I'm not going to beat this into Mr. Marshmallow's head (since he's already taken his fair share of beating), but DO try looking deeper into it, m'kay Mr. M? I think the word "evil" is soo.. blegh.

Originally Posted by pitbulllady

ANYONE, when under enough stress, will do awful things and behave in very unpleasant ways. I mean, we have seen on Foster's that WILT, of all people, can be pushed into doing some bad things and has "triggers" that prompt him to be a rather nasty individual. What would your opinion of Wilt be, for example, if the only episode you've seen him in was "Beat With a Schtick"? We only get to see Randall in Monsters, Inc. following TWO FREAKIN' YEARS of acute, intense physical and mental stress. If Wilt can be a nasty person from time to time due to things HE is going through, or has been through in his past, why is it any bigger leap of logic to assume that Randall, had he not been in that situation, could not have at least been a fairly easy-to-get-along-with guy, more of a "healthy" Type Three Personality? I've lived long enough, seen enough and done enough, to know that there is no such thing as a truely evil person or a totally good person. Everyone of us has the equal capacity for BOTH, depending on our circumstances. Randall is no more, or less, evil than I am, or you, or Wilt, or anyone else. He is simply an ordinary individual caught up in something way over his head, something he has no control over, and had basically been pushed to that wild animal survival mode we all possess. I've been there, Tonya's been there(without even being nearly as old as I am), so we understand. It was easy for the filmmakers to use him as the "red herring", to take away attention from the REAL villain(Waternoose), and to make him an object of deep hatred simply because he's scaly and reptilian, so they were counting on that hate/fear of reptiles that many people have to sway their opinions of Randall. Had he been furry, he would not have seemed anywhere near as menacing to most people. He's also the only reptilian monster in that whole movie, if you don't count Celia Mae's "hair", so I have to wonder if he's always been hated and treated with suspicion in HIS world, because of that. If you tell someone they're "bad" based on their appearance for long enough, they'll start to prove you right.

pitbulllady

This discussion reminded me of a tidbit that my Social and Ethnic Relations professor was discussing about the German soldiers that assisted in murdering millions of Jews during the Holocaust. It was completely baffling to us how these people could bring themselves to do what they did (If you've seen any actual footage of the German death camps, you'll know what I mean) and even more baffling to us were the soldiers' indifference and/or denial towards their acts of manslaughter. They were able to block out any sort of logic and reason and switch on their "tunnel vision" to morph their perceptions and just follow orders. It was either your #$$, or someone else's. Like my professor said, "we all love ourselves" (and he said this in a 'If I have to kill you so *I* can live, so be it' way).