The Batman

[AerostarMonk]

Ahbababababa. I'm going to have to think about this one. I mean I have no reason to counter. But I must say I'm just overwhelmed, anything I say from here on in will pale in comparison to this incredible post here.

You've made compelling arguments and actually have given me new respect for many of the characters. Though, still not the Penguin. I like this Penguin, but I'm still not one for the over the top deformity. Though they could evolve out of it. Even the B:TAS had a deformed Penguin for a couple of seasons. I still prefer the high society man who has no business being part of high society. I'm actually quite sad that Phillip Seymour Hoffman declined the role in the upcoming movie, because he is perfect.

I'm also not a fan of Riddler's new look. I think it's just awful. I just don't really see the Riddler as a scene kid basically. The creepiness and the smarts he has in spades, but that design just seemed like overkill to me. As I had said before I can actually sympathesize with all characters in Riddler's Revenge, because they all seemed like things actual people would do in the context of the events that occured. Of course they're exaggerated because no one actually goes all the way like the Riddler, but it seemed like the most believable of the origin stories for some of the more ludicrous villains.

Killer Moth isn't any more comedic than his actual comic counterpart who was a rather lame villain anyway. Well that was until the whole Neron deal. But I do like how they overlapped the comedic personality with his Charaxes form. That was a great break from the first Killer Moth exposure on Teen Titans who was closer to the Charaxes of the comic, minus the eating.

I'm glad you mentioned the new Clock King, Francis Grey. I''m actually mixed on how his story ended. On the one hand he's a great villain, on the other hand he deserved a second chance.

Wow, I never meant to write this much. And still I didn't hit all your points. I don't think I can. You really did a great job. Glad there's other people who are actually able to look past the differences from previous incarnations and enjoy this show.

By the way, I look forward to the other Justice League characters. As long as they don't try to make another Justice League show, because they had a perfectly good one that could've gone on for a few more years.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

I'm confident they can do a good job making the new Justice League characters be it villains or heroes look good, considering they did such a marvelous job bringing no namers like Ragdoll and Black Mask to light and actually making them interesting to see and to expierence.

I honestly didn't think Grey was Clock King, or if he really is the original namesake of the comic Clock King, I still prefer the AS one although the sympathy here is a nice touch (the episode itself was directed amazingly). I have heard Martian Manhunter is going to be involved in the big finale arc.

I also think the reason Penguin and Joker are used so much is because they are the TRUE faces of Batman's rogues gallery, there's no one bigger then them. Catwoman has never been a definitive villain but her fame is equal to theirs, it's just that Penguin and Joker are as classic Batman as you can get.

Any super hero show naturally is going to lob back to the main nemesis more then the others, Titans did it with Slade, Superman did it with Luthor and so on and so forth. I also found Killer Moth's debut to be quite amusing, and I hope he does come back with his Charaxes body again.

Even though i totally fell in love with the Teen Titans much more sinister version of Killer Moth.

[Medikor]

I'm not a big Batman fan and I'm not really a fan of this show but I do watch it once in a blue-moon. I have to say that, in regards to this Catwoman, the shows designers are leagues ahead of the Catwoman movie's Catwoman costume. (if you can call it that) I like the exaggerated cat features (ears, claws, ect) because I feel they are truer to the theme of the character and the anime look that the show is using. Plus, I like it when woman characters wear concealing clothing or costumes.

[Ditchy McAbandonpants]

Heh...cheers, AerostarMonk. It's frustrating when you like a show that no-one you know watches, because you can't discuss it with anybody. After watching four seasons of the show in quick succession, I had a lot of thoughts pent up, but still, I hadn't planned to write over 1700 words like I just did. I'm glad somebody actually read it!

Just a few more thoughts in response to you guys; I think the reason I'm not so keen on the whole Justice League angle is that it seems quite a major change to the status quo, which the show doesn't really need right now. Something similar happened at the end of Season Two; when I watched the final episode "Night and the City", it felt like the show had finally matured into a formula that worked, and with Batman finally gaining police acceptance and Gordon and the Bat-Signal in place, I thought that the show had built solid foundations for an excellent third season. However, the show instead opted for revolution over evolution, ditching many of the characters and dynamics that had underpinned it and reinventing itself with a zanier theme song, a load of new characters and a sassy sidekick in Batgirl, which in my opinion simply upset the rhythm that it had taken them so long to establish and resulted in an unnecessarily weaker season. To me, Season Four has been the strongest yet, with the writers really having found their groove; I'd hate to see them knock it off course again by adding to many new foreign elements. Then again, the strength of Season Four was partly thanks to the addition of Robin, something which I was equally sceptical over...so we'll just have to see, I guess.

Oh, and I did realise that Killer Moth was kind of a joke villain even in the comics; like you said, what I liked was that he retained his pitiful loser personality even after his body had gone superpowered. I'd like to see him come back, even if I will miss his original droopy, sad-sack appearance.

Mr Marshmallow: Certainly I understand that the likes of Joker and Penguin, as the most high-profile of Batman's villains, are always likely to crop up more often than others, but you still need to keep things fresh. One of the many achievements of B:TAS was keeping its villain appearances fresh and varied, so you don't mind how many times they show up; The Batman hasn't quite got that down yet, and a lot of Joker's and Penguin's appearance's feel a little samey, which risks people tiring of them...

Medikor: Don't get me wrong, I'm not for a second implying that I want Catwoman to strut around in a glorfied bikini like in that Halle Berry "movie". It's not the fact that the costume isn't revealing that I object to; I just don't think it looks very feminine with the huge hands and ears, combined with the fact that females on the show don't tend to be very curvaceous in any case. For Catwoman, a character defined by her femininity and sexuality, I feel it detracts from her character a lot, and Gina Gershon just isn't charismatic enough to sell it with her voice either, no matter how much she plays up the more suggestive lines. She has a few decent plots and good action sequences (especially in the finale of "Ragdoll to Riches"), but this Catwoman feels neutered to me, and I just don't feel the critical sexual tension between her and Batman...and like I said, a sexless Catwoman is no Catwoman at all.

[Mr. Marshmallow]

This is a personal theory of mine but, I think also one of the reasons Joker and Penguin show up alot is the availability of the voice actors. Those guys are very common voice actors these days and they end up doing bit parts for almost every TV show these days be it small or big.

I have heard Kevin Michael Richardson for dozens of roles before he ever played the Joker. He's been in Teen Titans, Crash Bandicoot, Lilo and Stitch, and even in the new TMNT movie. I think those guys are "easy to get" and most of the other voice actors require a little more finagling to get.

Ron Pearlmen has been busy in the movie world lately with "Desperation" and "Hellboy 2". Anyways, that's just a theory of mine of one of the reasons Joker and Penguin show up so much. I also think the two have a great chemistry on this show, they play off each other well even in the "Vs. Dracula" movie.

Which i absolutely loved . I had very low expectations for that movie but it was incredible and I loved Peter Stormare as Dracula.

EDIT

Oh yeah, in regards to Catwoman, if you look at some of her old comic book designs "The Batman" version of Catwoman's costume is actually alot like one of her original comic designs.

[Medikor]

Originally Posted by Ditchy McAbandonpants

Medikor: Don't get me wrong, I'm not for a second implying that I want Catwoman to strut around in a glorfied bikini like in that Halle Berry "movie". It's not the fact that the costume isn't revealing that I object to; I just don't think it looks very feminine with the huge hands and ears, combined with the fact that females on the show don't tend to be very curvaceous in any case. For Catwoman, a character defined by her femininity and sexuality, I feel it detracts from her character a lot, and Gina Gershon just isn't charismatic enough to sell it with her voice either, no matter how much she plays up the more suggestive lines. She has a few decent plots and good action sequences (especially in the finale of "Ragdoll to Riches"), but this Catwoman feels neutered to me, and I just don't feel the critical sexual tension between her and Batman...and like I said, a sexless Catwoman is no Catwoman at all.

I never meant to imply that she should be revealing. I don't really know a lot about the Batman universe and so I appreciate the points you make. A little learning on things I don't know to well never hurts me too much.
I grew up on Batman the Animated Series so The Batman is a little too different for me. I honestly preferred the almost realistic feel of the former over the semi over-the-top stuff in the latter. The Penguins fight scenes always turn me off the show. But like what was said before, the show is trying something new, and I can live with that. The show has its good points, definitely.

[Ditchy McAbandonpants]

Well, I've now seen the Season Four two-part finale "The Joining" and I feel...conflicted. Warning: big ol' spoilers ahead.

First things first, I have to tip my hat to the writers; this was a really, really good two-parter. I had had a few reservations about the idea of an alien invasion plotline, but the episodes made it work very well indeed. It was an exciting Independence Day/War of the Worlds-style epic, with a great supporting turn for Martian Manhunter, but one that still managed to retain that Batman flavour; we had a "robot replicant" subplot was very reminiscent of the B:TAS two-parter "Heart of Steel", some of the best usage of Robin and Batgirl yet (they made me laugh a few times here), a good introduction to Batman stalwart Lucius Fox who played nicely off Alfred, and a short but wonderful scene that sees Commissioner Gordon and the GCPD working hand in hand with Joker, Penguin and Mr. Freeze to fight off the alien forces. Overall, it was a rollocking finish to undoubtedly the show's best season yet.

And yet, I just have to mention the episode's ending, that sees Batman inivited by Martian Manhunter to join the Justice League. Within the context of this episode, it made for a nice conclusion, but I can't see how I can interpret it as anything other than a sign that The Batman is about to be transformed into a new Justice League show, or at the very least a JL/Batman hybrid, and that's very disappointing to me. I have nothing against Justice League, and I understand that Batman has always been a part of that franchise, but the simple fact is that this is supposed to be a Batman show, and I watch it because I want to watch a Batman show. If they really wanted to make a Justice League cartoon, why didn't they just continue with their popular Justice League Unlimited show instead of ending that and then hijacking The Batman? ??? It makes very little sense to me...

I hope I'm just jumping to conclusions. After all, Martian Manhunter worked very well in "The Joining", so occasional guest spots for other JL characters over the course of Season Five could definitely be pretty cool, but more than that I want to see them continue to keep their focus firmly on the Batman universe, to explore their established characters further, to establish the rarely seen ones (Poison Ivy, Clayface II, Harley Quinn, Bane) further, and to offer their original takes on as yet unused characters (Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow). And if they do go down the JL route...well, good luck to them, I'm sure they'll do a great show, but sadly I'm not sure if it'll be one I'm still interested in watching...

[emperor26]

Did anyone catch the season premiere of the Batman yesterday?

After watching part one, I have to say that I'm glad they did a good job with it, even though Jeff Matsuda won't be involved in the show.

Interesting enough, some of the voice actors from the Superman the Animated Series reprised their role of their respective character (except for Tim Daly, who's role as Superman is done by George Newbern)

I also noted the role reversal shown in this episode: Superman was not only serious, but he prefer to work alone, while Batman values teamwork.

Other than that, I'm looking forward to the rest of season 5.