Sorry I really don't post here at this forum anymore, but I just had to say this.


I think you guys have too great an image of Frankie in your heads. She's not perfect, no girl is...And y'know, I think I recall reading somewhere that you fanboys find her perfect through everything, even imperfections.

To me, this episode gave her a whole 'nother dimension. Made her seem a lot more real. I didn't like seeing her so down on herself either, but I could relate to her. Not saying I couldn't before, but it just...Yeah.

You can blame it on the writer, but I for one choose to accept it as canon.



As for Peas, well...I actually liked the little guy. His voice was kind of annoying, but I liked him.

And the Jackie-Fluffer moment...Well, it was a bit odd at first, but that "forget about it, let's just go outside" bit was pretty funny. Cx


Now, I didn't totally love the episode...It was kind of annoying that they reused so much of tBC. It gave me the impression that they were in a hurry to throw together another episode, so they just went back and grabbed the scenes as filler. The idea of tLP was pretty cool, seeing an old episode from a different perspective, but I was hoping that they weren't going to use so many old scenes.


Overall, yeah. I liked the episode. There were just some things that could stand to be changed.

Canon or not it's still revisionist history. Frankie doesn't get a lot of triumphs in the show, and stealing one away from her, which is exactly what this episode did, was an unecessary slap in the face. :frankiemad:

I don't know about 'revisionist' history as the episodes themeslves are a sort of akshantic record of what transpired at Fosters. It's not so much revising history so much as clarifying it as now you know more about what happened than you did previously. You merely assumed without all the full facts that Frankie came up with the idea of using this disaster to beg for money.

As for Frankie having few triumphs, I think being elected President by a huge margin by the whole house is more of a triumph than begging for cash after a desparate set of events. Little Peas did something nice for Frankie and you're being mean not to aknowledge that. Besides he has that darling little thimble hat. How big is he, anyhow? He does seem to change a lot, become almost microscopic at one point. I like Peas. Even if I stand alone!

It's a revision in that Peas wasn't even thought of by the writers until long after The Big Cheese had aired. By the same argument, we can't ever know if it was really Mac's plan to battle the extremeasaurus way back in the pilot episode; how do we know Peas wasn't there, whispering the plan in his ear? Or perhaps Wilt would never had made that fateful call to Foul Larry without Peas's encouragement. Did we see Peas in House Of Bloo's or Good Wilt Hunting? No. Nor did we see him in The Big Cheese. But apparently just because we didn't see him doesn't mean he wasn't there, right? No, The Little Peas is a revision, a rewrite, as surely as some of the later Star Trek series occasionally rewrote what had been canon in the original classic. But now, having aired, it's canon, and Frankie and her fans are a little poorer for it.

There was nothing to assume because that WAS how it happened, Frankie DID do it by herself and this episode changed it. There is nothing to clarify because nothing needed clarification unless there was something different going on, and there wasn't, because this idea came up AFTER "Big Cheese" was aired.

This wasn't like a director's cut version of the episode where you see all these little things they forgot to put in. This was a total rearrangement of an episode, changing things that were as was to something different. Nothing was cleared up, the only thing that is clear is that the episode was made to LOOK like something was cleared up.

I usually keep the subject of reality and the writers influence in a show separate, it helps become more involved with the show and become more "a part of it". However, I can't ignore that reality difference when it is used in such a blatantly and unnecessary way that robbed Frankie of one of her few spotlight moments.

Its a rare moment when I honestly say "the writers did that, NOT the character" and trust me when I tell you I HATE doing that. But like i said, this is just too obvious and too crappy an alteration to not let that reality kick me in the ass just like how this episode gave Frankie's ass a good kicking.

Agreed 100%. I have never blamed the writers for what happened in Imposter's and I never will. This is different, though; it feels different in a way that I can't fully describe, and I don't like it. I would far rather keep the writers and the story events separate in my mind but in this one case I can't.

Prove it.

The writers themselves might not have known Peas was there, he is very small. Maybe he was in all those other situations but on the available information, we'd have to conclude not.
You've got to trust that the creators of this show like Frankie too or else you might as well stop watching it because it'll just keep upsetting you. Ugh I'm getting tied in logical knots now but in the end me and Frankie both like Peas. Sorry you're not along for the ride.

Oh, give me a break. Peas, and every other aspect of the show, isn't something that the writers discover; it's something that they create. If he wasn't there before, it's because he didn't exist, not because the writers overlooked him. ::)

I have to agree with Cass, this sort of "future planning" stuff is not really reserved for such things like this show. Only shows like Buffy the vampire slayer, or Heroes would incorporate such long advance story preparations because they have complex and intricate story lines that require thinking and preparing ahead of time.

Nothing about Peas or this episode is anything that would require additional thinking or planning over, its a one shot concept with a one shot character. None of the other one shot IF characters had this much time devoted to them, that's because they were not the SOUL point of the episode, like Peas was here.

There was nothing in this episode or about Peas himself that would make me think or say the creators planned this out from the very moment they started writing "The Big Cheese". All this Peas thing was a "open door" for the creators to slide a new episode, in fact, this is as close to a "cheap" episode as you can get.

Nothing happened here that would make ANYONE want to think about it well in advance. This felt like a last minute idea to scrap up an episode without doing anything too complicated, so they stick us with an episode which we already saw with a character we never saw before and take away something we already knew before and wiped their asses with it.

While I am just a touch disappointed that Peas was the one who told Frankie how to turn the situation in her favor (albeit in a rather desperate way), it is canon now and there ain't a lot we can do about it.

And I don't see it being such a big deal that she was robbed of one of her few spotlight moments, since every Foster's character... really doesn't have many spotlight moments, anyway. I mean, how many times do we see Bloo get foiled? Things usually turn out pretty bad for Wilt, too. (I mean, how many times has he gotten in jail?) There are more, of course. I'm sure Frankie's still about even with all the other characters in the times she actually HAS succeeded, even with this loss, here.

----ANSWER STARTS HERE----
4 times, not counting the voluntary I'll-Go-To-Jail-Cause-I-Stood-On-Rugs-And-Stood-Within-100FT-Of-A-Lamp time. It won't count, since he did it to himself, as an act of self-punishment.

1 time where he actually MIGHT'VE deserved it, and that's a pretty big MIGHT. He didn't know those people were robbing some person's home. He possibly thought of them as moving truck people. (I did too until the cops showed up) (GWH)

2 times where he was actually innocent and didn't deserve it (and believe it or not, these two were in the same episode). He didn't even deserve the second time, either, because he's not at fault for the first time, so escaping from jail (while innocent) couldn't BE a crime. (Where There's a Wilt There's a Way)

And the last one...What the HELL did he do? (Cheese a Go-Go)

Gee, who would've thought that Bloo was right about the "Life of Crime" thing. For a nice guy, Wilt sure knows how to get into jail, even if he didn't actually do anything wrong.
----ANSWER ENDS HERE----

Sorry, couldn't help but answer it.

Be lucky Frankie's never been to jail, or at least as much as Wilt. Don't kill me.

Well, antgirl1, you're right.

However, Wilt was Madame Foster's lawyer IIRC in "Cheese A Go-Go" and was being jailed for contempt of court in the sandwich case of Jackie Khones vs. Madame Foster.

Thanks Antgirl. %D

Was THAT it!? Thanks, that has been bugging me for FOREVER because I couldn't figure it out. x__x

This is how I felt about the whole thing. I know how they feel, I like to see Frankie win sometimes too, have a triumphant moment, and it kinda sucked to see one taken away from her.
But really, the episode happened, and there's not much you can do to change it. So, I got over it. I think I'm a bit healthier for it, too. I don't need any extra anger or stress in my life, and as awesome as this show is, it really shouldn't make that huge an impact in my life.

I know it's hard to help it sometimes, but just let it go.

Well it is possible for such an episode to be ejected from canon. If you adopt the concept of fanon where you only take into account episodes that you feel fit with the rest of the series as a whole. Also there have been times when fanon has been accepted as true canon. One major example is Batman the Animated Series. An episode that was reviled by many a fan was rejected from canon by the producers themselves.

However I don't think that it's warranted for this particular episode, I was just saying.

As much as I dislike the episode I don't favor the idea of ejecting it from canon; that just opens the door for anyone who didn't like a given episode to say it doesn't count.

Like I said, it takes a whole heap of people for that sorta thing to happen. It's a rare occurrence. Also if you adopt the idea of fanon, it's out of your own personal canon. An idea that is used quite a bit among fans in every genre. Doesn't mean it doesn't count for real, but for you the events are nonexistent.

In that case I am declaring that Gooftard, Peas, and every Cheese episode after Mac Daddy no longer exists. Oh, and Dylan Lee got run over by a garbage truck. :bendy: 8D

After watching this episode again, I'm actually developing a new found appreciation for Imposter's, at least that episode had its moments.

They've Started Fanon?!?!?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


Sorry, Harry Potter war scars.

Hmmm... I gotta tell you, the whole "fanon" concept has always left me feeling a little uneasy. :macwor: Naturally, I have no problem with fans isolating, separating and reinterpreting individual parts of a show to suit their personal tastes; that's all part and parcel of how to enjoy a creative work. What I've always been wary of is this perception (so rife amongst the hardcore fanfic-writing/"shipping" community) that the fans' interpretations and ideas are as important/more important than that of the creators themselves, and that it's up to them to influence the creators to produce work that better fits these interpretations. Not only does this suggest to me that said fans have lost track of what they were fans of in the first place, it's a dangerous form of power without responsibility, and it always saddens me when a creator does bow to this kind of pressure, because they always emerge with creative coherence and integrity diminished; the films Spider-Man 3, Star Wars Episode II and the game The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess are three examples of projects that I feel ended up compromised by their attempts to "give fans what they want", rather than sticking to their own creative guns. Don't get me wrong, I'm not holding up "The Little Peas" as a bastion of artistic purity that must protected and cherished; more that I think it best that those who were dissatisfied with the episode deal with it in their own way, rather than starting a pressure movement to have it scrubbed from existence. Because that way lies madness. :weirded:

As for the episode itself: I must say, I'm beginning to suspect that I'm something of a freak, because not only am I a Cheese-sceptic who thinks "The Big Cheese" was by far the best Cheese episode, but I'm also a Frankie fan who rather liked "The Little Peas". :bloocross: What can I say? I thought it was an original, fresh concept that was executed creditably. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that visually and design-wise, it was one of the most interesting episodes to date; reinterpreting everything in the house from the perspective of one so small completely changes its feel, and the episode had fun imaginatively transforming bits of scenery as familiar and innocuous as doorframes, elevators and carpets into terrifying chasms and lethal, intimidating deathtraps. As for Peas himself, I have to confess that I thought he worked. The central joke about the character - that he's a chipper, Mickey Mouse-esque do-gooder who imagines that he's inspiring those around him with his can-do attitude, but is in fact completely ignored - was sly enough to counterbalance his potential saccharinity, but without undermining him so much that his against-the-odds quest doesn't become actually a little inspiring.

My main problem with the episode, like most people, is that ending. Unlike a lot of others, I had no big problem with Peas's initial pep talk; it seemed out of character for Frankie to just give up like she did, but it was presented in an understandable way, and I read it as being sort of sweet that Peas should give this inspirational speech to the person who has clearly inspired him to do the things he did, and as quite an endorsement of Frankie as a person. The retcon of Peas whispering her entire TV address into her ear, on the other hand, just overplays that massively, changing Peas from plucky little helper to ridiculous deus ex machina and needlessly undermining Frankie's established character qualities of resourcefulness and intelligence, making her seem like a passive and hapless beneficiary of fortuitous circumstances. :madbloo: A major misstep, for sure, and one that leaves a slightly unpleasant taste in the mouth, but in a season that I felt cruised a little too much at times, the creative effort that clearly went into "Little Peas" still prevents me from judging it too harshly...

And was crippled for life. :D

And smelled like garbage. 8D

You have no idea how strongly I agree with this. :frankiemad: In any case, as far as I'm concerned The Little Peas is canon now, by virtue of the fact that it aired. I wish it hadn't, but I will have to live with it.

By no means was it my intention for fanon to be used unwisely. My perception of fanon has always been you keep it to yourself, unless there's truly a reason for it to be used. Many things that have fell victim of fanon were used to rashly. The Underdwellers wasn't so terrible of an episode that justified an ejection from canon.

Also fanon has been used to rectify some mistakes that the creators have missed. Once more I point to the DCAU, where in an episode of Superman, Wonder Woman was mentioned, an impossibility for she wouldn't be seen in man's world for almost 5 years after the mention. Or the existence of two Green Lanterns in the same sector. Now I'm getting way off topic. But what I'm saying is fanon is not all bad. You just have to use it wisely.

I still think that Peas was a highly annoying character and he wasn't too funny. I did like the different perspectives and the frame by frame identical scenes that showed improvement in the animation, but the central character was nigh unwatchable. The ret-con of an ending was a total copout. But one could actually figure that he just supplied the words, Frankie had to sell it which is something else entirely. What's a speech without a speaker?

Yes. I agree...Though, I liked the Big Cheese, but I don't count it as my favorite episode. If you're a freak, you're not alone. C=

I guess there ain't no good times, there ain't no bad times.

It's just you and me and we just disagree.

I kind of liken this to what they call on wrestling boards as "an alternate perspective". The same program, but from a different angle (pun intended).

This made me sad.

I don't know, first episode I watch since looking back into this series and... um. Wow. Mmhmm. It certain'y didn't catch me, if anything I felt kind of embarassed to watch this one. That's never happened before..!

Stupid Peas... I suddenly feel like mashing some peas into some pea mush..

Yeah, it IS sad, especially if that WAS the last ep of the season, to end on that note.
For some reason, when I think of Peas, I can't help but be reminded of a certain scene in a certain old Linda Blair movie, :bendy:

pitbulllady

You mean "The Exorcist"?! HAHAHAHA! The "Pea Soup" scene. :blooxd:

Yeah, This episode was Fair. Not my favorite, though.

:jk:

I JUST saw this episode. I like it. I always find episodes redone from someone else's point of view amusing, it was a good Frankie episode, and what's everyone got against Peas? He's ADORABLE!! I'd want to adopt him if I wasn't so sure our cats would eat him 8D

Well... if you consider Frankie being all down in the dumpity a "good" thing, don't miss that other classic, Imposter's home for um... make 'em up pals

Seriously! I may not be a Frankie fan on the same level as you guys are, but it bothered me a LOT to see her reduced to such a state, and made to look so incompetent, so dependent on a tiny little talking legume for advice, as if she could not think of anything on her own. It was just as troubling to see that claim that Peas was the only resident of the house who ever thought about her or helped her out, and that if it weren't for him, Frankie could never accomplish anything.

pitbulllady

Am I the only one that thought Peas giving Frankie an idea didn't take away from her moment? :jk:

Still gotta watch this one. I remember Peas from the dare episode when Bloo dares him to knock something off of his shoulder. But now there's an entire episode of him.